1
00:00:05,140 --> 00:00:19,269
[Music]

2
00:00:34,930 --> 00:00:20,330
so

3
00:00:34,940 --> 00:00:43,030
[Music]

4
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:49,430
paying radio mike lucas

5
00:00:56,310 --> 00:00:51,830
welcome live to paying radio tonight is

6
00:00:59,270 --> 00:00:56,320
sunday june 25th 2017. we have a good

7
00:01:01,670 --> 00:00:59,280
show in store for you tonight tonight we

8
00:01:02,470 --> 00:01:01,680
were able to find kevin randle under a

9
00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:02,480
rock

10
00:01:04,950 --> 00:01:03,680
and he's going to be on tonight

11
00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:04,960
discussing

12
00:01:10,550 --> 00:01:08,159
his new book some possible mufon and

13
00:01:12,789 --> 00:01:10,560
roswell stuff of course as usual but i'm

14
00:01:15,190 --> 00:01:12,799
with my co-host can storage ken how you

15
00:01:16,789 --> 00:01:15,200
doing hey i'm doing fine a quick shout

16
00:01:18,469 --> 00:01:16,799
out to george and patty george it was

17
00:01:21,270 --> 00:01:18,479
really good seeing you

18
00:01:22,710 --> 00:01:21,280
and to my grandson he's tuning in

19
00:01:25,590 --> 00:01:22,720
tonight too he finds this stuff

20
00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:25,600
fascinating and rosie jessup in england

21
00:01:29,510 --> 00:01:27,040
thank you very much there you go and a

22
00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:29,520
big shout out to lorna who uh always

23
00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:31,200
kind of throws this together for us on

24
00:01:35,190 --> 00:01:32,960
the back and uh i appreciate lorna

25
00:01:36,710 --> 00:01:35,200
reaching out to kevin and uh getting

26
00:01:39,670 --> 00:01:36,720
them on it it's always fun to have

27
00:01:41,830 --> 00:01:39,680
listen to you too uh bicker and uh i

28
00:01:43,510 --> 00:01:41,840
just kind of sit back and uh

29
00:01:45,350 --> 00:01:43,520
maybe i'll be the judge tonight maybe

30
00:01:47,830 --> 00:01:45,360
the jury but it is fun listen you guys

31
00:01:49,749 --> 00:01:47,840
uh dig deep into research on roswell and

32
00:01:51,270 --> 00:01:49,759
other issues but this is always a fun

33
00:01:53,109 --> 00:01:51,280
show ken

34
00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:53,119
oh absolutely i'm looking forward to it

35
00:01:56,389 --> 00:01:54,560
i enjoy uh

36
00:01:58,149 --> 00:01:56,399
kevin randle's uh

37
00:01:59,749 --> 00:01:58,159
discussions and

38
00:02:02,310 --> 00:01:59,759
i appreciate the fact

39
00:02:04,069 --> 00:02:02,320
that uh he holds your feet to the fire i

40
00:02:05,749 --> 00:02:04,079
have no problem with that and i believe

41
00:02:07,990 --> 00:02:05,759
vice versa you're right right i believe

42
00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,000
last time we interrupted him uh i think

43
00:02:12,070 --> 00:02:10,319
it was the final show of a season what

44
00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:12,080
he was watching and we basically got him

45
00:02:16,229 --> 00:02:13,920
on the air and he had to record his show

46
00:02:19,110 --> 00:02:16,239
and watch it last time i believe

47
00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:19,120
i'm not mistaken is that correct kevin

48
00:02:22,869 --> 00:02:21,200
i don't remember i remember talking to

49
00:02:24,470 --> 00:02:22,879
people i had to get off to watch the end

50
00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:24,480
of game of thrones or something because

51
00:02:27,910 --> 00:02:25,360
i mean

52
00:02:28,949 --> 00:02:27,920
that that is of course where my whole

53
00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:28,959
life now

54
00:02:34,470 --> 00:02:32,080
resides is in westeros for those of you

55
00:02:37,110 --> 00:02:34,480
paying attention well it's glad it's

56
00:02:39,670 --> 00:02:37,120
glad to have you back and uh ken ken's

57
00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:39,680
been chomping at the bits to uh discuss

58
00:02:44,949 --> 00:02:42,160
things with you tonight right ken

59
00:02:47,509 --> 00:02:44,959
oh absolutely like i said i enjoy uh the

60
00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:47,519
discussions with kevin randle as well as

61
00:02:52,550 --> 00:02:49,440
i do with stanton friedman

62
00:02:54,710 --> 00:02:52,560
and um and i've some some of the

63
00:02:56,390 --> 00:02:54,720
questions that i have

64
00:02:59,030 --> 00:02:56,400
i have asked stanton

65
00:03:00,869 --> 00:02:59,040
kevin i have not received a satisfactory

66
00:03:02,070 --> 00:03:00,879
answer so i'm going to pose some of

67
00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:02,080
those questions

68
00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:05,280
to you tonight well i would like to do a

69
00:03:08,630 --> 00:03:07,120
radio program where stan friedman's name

70
00:03:11,750 --> 00:03:08,640
doesn't come up

71
00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:14,390
kevin you look you can't you know

72
00:03:17,350 --> 00:03:15,840
that's like talking about the us

73
00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:17,360
government but we can't mention the bill

74
00:03:21,430 --> 00:03:19,920
of rights or the constitution come on

75
00:03:23,270 --> 00:03:21,440
all right you got to give

76
00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:23,280
you've got to give him his druthers as

77
00:03:27,910 --> 00:03:26,720
well as you well all i'm saying is and

78
00:03:30,229 --> 00:03:27,920
the ship

79
00:03:32,630 --> 00:03:30,239
because you brought it up

80
00:03:35,030 --> 00:03:32,640
well i did because i put

81
00:03:37,350 --> 00:03:35,040
it was a compliment colonel i put you on

82
00:03:39,430 --> 00:03:37,360
the same level as stanton freeman i i

83
00:03:42,070 --> 00:03:39,440
respect your opinion and i certainly

84
00:03:45,270 --> 00:03:42,080
respect your uh research as well as i do

85
00:03:46,949 --> 00:03:45,280
his but i have issues with with uh like

86
00:03:48,630 --> 00:03:46,959
stan i said i posed him a couple of

87
00:03:51,670 --> 00:03:48,640
questions and i did not get a

88
00:03:53,589 --> 00:03:51,680
satisfactory answer and i want to i want

89
00:03:55,589 --> 00:03:53,599
to run those by you when we get to that

90
00:03:57,110 --> 00:03:55,599
crossroads bud but i would just like to

91
00:04:01,350 --> 00:03:57,120
say one thing i win because i'm a

92
00:04:05,030 --> 00:04:03,589
hey i'm a sergeant and you colonels

93
00:04:06,869 --> 00:04:05,040
couldn't get [\h__\h] done if it wasn't for

94
00:04:08,309 --> 00:04:06,879
us sergeants and you know that want a

95
00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:08,319
bet

96
00:04:12,470 --> 00:04:11,200
yeah i do man

97
00:04:15,589 --> 00:04:12,480
but anyway

98
00:04:18,629 --> 00:04:15,599
i know how to work the specialists

99
00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:18,639
and we knew how to manipulate you brass

100
00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:21,280
i don't think so oh buddy

101
00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:23,600
you you didn't run out of me okay i can

102
00:04:27,749 --> 00:04:25,040
tell you

103
00:04:31,510 --> 00:04:27,759
so we're even there there you go yes sir

104
00:04:33,510 --> 00:04:31,520
but remember one thing i got paid for

105
00:04:36,469 --> 00:04:33,520
so

106
00:04:38,230 --> 00:04:36,479
there you go i got paid more

107
00:04:39,430 --> 00:04:38,240
money money

108
00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:39,440
is not

109
00:04:42,950 --> 00:04:40,800
the measure

110
00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:42,960
although it is true you did get paid

111
00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:45,040
more and you and and and you had a lot

112
00:04:48,230 --> 00:04:47,120
better benefits than i did that's a fact

113
00:04:49,909 --> 00:04:48,240
jack

114
00:04:51,510 --> 00:04:49,919
well what benefits did i get that you

115
00:04:54,390 --> 00:04:51,520
don't

116
00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:54,400
no i mean rank has its privilege

117
00:04:57,749 --> 00:04:55,680
uh we

118
00:05:00,150 --> 00:04:57,759
my point of view had always been we take

119
00:05:02,070 --> 00:05:00,160
care of our enlisted soldiers first then

120
00:05:03,590 --> 00:05:02,080
we take care of ourselves

121
00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:03,600
and i was fortunate to serve under

122
00:05:07,670 --> 00:05:06,000
several commanders that did exactly that

123
00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:07,680
that's the way it's supposed to be you

124
00:05:11,749 --> 00:05:10,320
damn right well there's a big difference

125
00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:11,759
the way it's supposed to be and

126
00:05:20,390 --> 00:05:18,150
i made sure i made sure my soldiers were

127
00:05:21,350 --> 00:05:20,400
taken care of before i

128
00:05:23,189 --> 00:05:21,360
uh

129
00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:23,199
colonel green did the same thing he was

130
00:05:27,830 --> 00:05:25,440
a good uh good commander i believe only

131
00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:27,840
time the only time i broke that

132
00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:30,000
is while we were in iraq

133
00:05:33,749 --> 00:05:32,160
and there was a phone that we could use

134
00:05:35,909 --> 00:05:33,759
to call home

135
00:05:38,230 --> 00:05:35,919
and i broke the line once

136
00:05:39,749 --> 00:05:38,240
but it was for official business and i

137
00:05:41,189 --> 00:05:39,759
and i told the people like i've got to

138
00:05:42,710 --> 00:05:41,199
break the line here i'll get off as

139
00:05:44,950 --> 00:05:42,720
quickly as i can

140
00:05:47,350 --> 00:05:44,960
and i think they all understood and i

141
00:05:50,070 --> 00:05:47,360
should the mission the mission

142
00:05:51,909 --> 00:05:50,080
comes first but uh but that's the only

143
00:05:53,430 --> 00:05:51,919
time i really violated that rule i

144
00:05:55,430 --> 00:05:53,440
always tried to make sure the soldiers

145
00:06:00,230 --> 00:05:55,440
were taken care of and then we then we

146
00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:03,430
hey kevin yes i'm here

147
00:06:08,629 --> 00:06:05,120
i want to jump into

148
00:06:09,909 --> 00:06:08,639
the uh roswell the 21st century book

149
00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:09,919
okay

150
00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:13,680
and you know after and i i was telling

151
00:06:17,189 --> 00:06:15,520
um

152
00:06:19,510 --> 00:06:17,199
mj that

153
00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:19,520
i i didn't read it read it but i went

154
00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:22,000
through chapters and picked out uh

155
00:06:25,830 --> 00:06:23,680
passages and stuff and i found it

156
00:06:28,870 --> 00:06:25,840
interesting and i and i will

157
00:06:30,870 --> 00:06:28,880
uh read it to read it

158
00:06:32,230 --> 00:06:30,880
i think the footnotes are the most fun

159
00:06:33,189 --> 00:06:32,240
well idea and i was just getting ready

160
00:06:35,909 --> 00:06:33,199
to say

161
00:06:37,990 --> 00:06:35,919
that's where i spent a lot of my time

162
00:06:39,990 --> 00:06:38,000
but um

163
00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:40,000
you don't think a craft came down in

164
00:06:45,270 --> 00:06:43,600
roswell in 46 i i don't know anymore

165
00:06:52,790 --> 00:06:45,280
i

166
00:06:55,590 --> 00:06:52,800
me

167
00:06:57,670 --> 00:06:55,600
uh we got to we got to albuquerque and

168
00:06:58,870 --> 00:06:57,680
uh we had a number of interviews met set

169
00:07:00,469 --> 00:06:58,880
up we were supposed to meet with frank

170
00:07:01,670 --> 00:07:00,479
joyce but he canceled on us because he

171
00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:01,680
was sick

172
00:07:06,950 --> 00:07:04,000
we met with this new age group that was

173
00:07:09,270 --> 00:07:06,960
way outside the box

174
00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:09,280
in their new age orientation and they

175
00:07:13,430 --> 00:07:11,120
they added nothing to it then we went to

176
00:07:15,510 --> 00:07:13,440
roswell cliff stone and he didn't have a

177
00:07:17,189 --> 00:07:15,520
lot that was of importance and i'm

178
00:07:18,870 --> 00:07:17,199
thinking this thing is just coming apart

179
00:07:20,870 --> 00:07:18,880
and then we of course met bill brazel

180
00:07:22,070 --> 00:07:20,880
and everything just solidified at that

181
00:07:24,070 --> 00:07:22,080
point

182
00:07:26,469 --> 00:07:24,080
but as we continued the investigation

183
00:07:28,550 --> 00:07:26,479
and we were finding more and more people

184
00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:28,560
who are involved in some fashion

185
00:07:34,469 --> 00:07:31,680
uh the the family of the the sheriffs uh

186
00:07:37,189 --> 00:07:34,479
george wilcox um other soldiers who were

187
00:07:40,150 --> 00:07:37,199
involved in some aspect of the recovery

188
00:07:42,230 --> 00:07:40,160
operation my conversations with ed edwin

189
00:07:44,710 --> 00:07:42,240
easley who was the provost marshal on

190
00:07:46,870 --> 00:07:44,720
the base at the time it all led us to

191
00:07:48,309 --> 00:07:46,880
this idea that there was this this alien

192
00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:48,319
crap it was looked like there was going

193
00:07:52,309 --> 00:07:50,400
to be a lot of

194
00:07:54,070 --> 00:07:52,319
evidence about it but now we're to the

195
00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:54,080
point where some of the witnesses have

196
00:07:59,990 --> 00:07:56,080
completely blown up on us uh frank

197
00:08:01,110 --> 00:08:00,000
kaufman glenn dennis to name two

198
00:08:04,869 --> 00:08:01,120
um

199
00:08:07,350 --> 00:08:04,879
whose tales are not credible

200
00:08:09,670 --> 00:08:07,360
and things like that when you look at

201
00:08:12,309 --> 00:08:09,680
the state of the evidence as it exists

202
00:08:14,309 --> 00:08:12,319
today in the 21st century as opposed to

203
00:08:17,670 --> 00:08:14,319
where it was back in the 1990s as we

204
00:08:20,469 --> 00:08:17,680
began the investigation how about 1947.

205
00:08:22,629 --> 00:08:20,479
well i'm saying our investigation of of

206
00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:22,639
what was going on i mean that's where we

207
00:08:27,430 --> 00:08:25,440
started in the 1990s and at that point

208
00:08:29,350 --> 00:08:27,440
we came to the conclusion it was alien

209
00:08:32,149 --> 00:08:29,360
and i was absolutely convinced it was

210
00:08:33,990 --> 00:08:32,159
alien but as we continued to march and

211
00:08:35,750 --> 00:08:34,000
got more and more information it became

212
00:08:37,829 --> 00:08:35,760
clear that the information wasn't as

213
00:08:40,230 --> 00:08:37,839
solid as we thought it was

214
00:08:42,550 --> 00:08:40,240
and so we get to the point where if you

215
00:08:44,949 --> 00:08:42,560
say to me today well what fellow roswell

216
00:08:46,550 --> 00:08:44,959
my answer is i don't know

217
00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:46,560
was it a project mogul balloon

218
00:08:49,910 --> 00:08:47,920
absolutely not

219
00:08:51,990 --> 00:08:49,920
uh that that information is clear it's

220
00:08:53,509 --> 00:08:52,000
documented they said there was no uh

221
00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:53,519
flight number well let's look here you

222
00:08:56,310 --> 00:08:54,480
know

223
00:08:57,670 --> 00:08:56,320
and i i'm not i'll tell you where i'm

224
00:08:59,750 --> 00:08:57,680
coming from

225
00:09:01,509 --> 00:08:59,760
and and i'll get into some of the

226
00:09:04,949 --> 00:09:01,519
specifics and the footnotes and the book

227
00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:06,070
i've

228
00:09:11,110 --> 00:09:08,080
i work on the kiss principle when it

229
00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:11,120
comes to investigations okay and keep it

230
00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:13,920
simple stupid and and the reason why

231
00:09:18,389 --> 00:09:15,839
that's important

232
00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:18,399
is because you otherwise

233
00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:20,480
you can become tunnel vision so what i'm

234
00:09:26,230 --> 00:09:24,160
about to tell you is my perspective

235
00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:26,240
based on everything is is that

236
00:09:30,310 --> 00:09:28,880
go with what the initial

237
00:09:32,870 --> 00:09:30,320
report was

238
00:09:35,829 --> 00:09:32,880
the government told us that they

239
00:09:37,829 --> 00:09:35,839
captured a flying disc

240
00:09:38,949 --> 00:09:37,839
no they actually set a flying saucer

241
00:09:41,110 --> 00:09:38,959
okay well

242
00:09:43,829 --> 00:09:41,120
and yeah

243
00:09:46,550 --> 00:09:43,839
the fact of the matter is they admitted

244
00:09:47,990 --> 00:09:46,560
no no because you're going to go

245
00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:48,000
listen to me

246
00:09:55,509 --> 00:09:51,519
go ken

247
00:09:58,070 --> 00:09:55,519
in july of 1947 flying saucer did not

248
00:09:59,910 --> 00:09:58,080
necessarily mean an alien spacecraft

249
00:10:02,790 --> 00:09:59,920
there were many definitions of what a

250
00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:02,800
flying saucer was and one of them was

251
00:10:07,910 --> 00:10:05,040
alien spacecraft but by saying they had

252
00:10:10,630 --> 00:10:07,920
a flying saucer didn't necessarily mean

253
00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:10,640
they had an alien spacecraft based on

254
00:10:14,790 --> 00:10:13,040
the semantics and the tone and the

255
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:14,800
information being possessed

256
00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:16,720
uh passed

257
00:10:19,750 --> 00:10:18,800
wait a minute whoa time out here for a

258
00:10:21,069 --> 00:10:19,760
second

259
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:21,079
okay

260
00:10:28,470 --> 00:10:26,320
1947 the term flying saucer

261
00:10:32,310 --> 00:10:28,480
and that's going back to kenneth

262
00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,320
arnold's siding in which he describes

263
00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:34,560
objects that he could not

264
00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:36,800
positively identify other than their

265
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:39,279
shape and how they flew and that's where

266
00:10:44,069 --> 00:10:41,680
that term came from and so to use the

267
00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:44,079
term flying saucer kevin they're talking

268
00:10:50,069 --> 00:10:47,519
about alien technology no they're not

269
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:50,079
no they're not they're absolutely

270
00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:52,079
you haven't been the term flying saucer

271
00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:53,440
the term flying saucer actually

272
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:54,640
mentioned

273
00:10:57,990 --> 00:10:55,440
uh

274
00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:58,000
referred to the motion of the objects

275
00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:00,160
uh as they moved through the air like a

276
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:01,920
saucer skipping across dipping across

277
00:11:05,509 --> 00:11:03,040
the water

278
00:11:06,949 --> 00:11:05,519
and the this uh

279
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:06,959
craft that

280
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:10,079
arnold reported was not saucer shaped

281
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:11,440
no

282
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:13,360
they weren't they looked like the a

283
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:15,120
little bit like the horton project the

284
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:16,800
nazis were doing

285
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:18,320
now they look more like the flying wing

286
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:19,839
if you want to get nests you want to get

287
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:22,640
to that point okay but it doesn't make

288
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:24,880
any difference the fact of the matter is

289
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:28,399
flying saucer was referring to exotic

290
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:31,040
technology aerodynamically and the way

291
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:33,440
they flew and the speed at which was

292
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:35,600
calculated by kenneth arnold so when

293
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:38,320
that term flying saucer it did mean

294
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:40,800
exotic technology now you we can argue

295
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,560
whether or not that exotic technology

296
00:11:46,870 --> 00:11:45,279
came from the nazis russians chinese are

297
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:46,880
our own inventions but the fact of the

298
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:50,399
matter is that's what it referred to

299
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:52,399
i got no problem with i got that no i

300
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,760
got no problem with that definition

301
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:55,279
exotic technology i have no problem with

302
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:56,320
that i'm just saying it doesn't

303
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:58,880
necessarily mean alien technology

304
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,760
well

305
00:12:03,829 --> 00:12:01,920
i think in 47 it did and i think it

306
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:03,839
means that today too look at the

307
00:12:08,829 --> 00:12:06,720
newspaper no in today's today yes today

308
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:08,839
yes but look at the newspapers back in

309
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:11,360
1947 very few of them as they're talking

310
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:12,639
about this right up to the time of the

311
00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:14,240
roswell case they're not talking about

312
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:15,680
alien spacecraft they're talking about a

313
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:17,040
lot of other stuff

314
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:19,600
well based on your research kevin and i

315
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:21,680
this is one of the questions i hit you

316
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:23,680
don't want to hear his name but no i

317
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:25,760
just that ship sailed we can mention

318
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,160
stan all you want well i asked stanton

319
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,079
friedman this question and i did not get

320
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:32,000
a satisfactory answer and i have yet to

321
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:34,639
receive one but i think i have come up

322
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,120
with a hypothesis that works that

323
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:39,200
answers the question i'm not saying that

324
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:41,600
it that it does and the question is

325
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,959
why okay

326
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,959
let's for the sake of argument say that

327
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:46,800
when they mention flying saucer and they

328
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:49,360
made that announcement in july of 47

329
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:51,279
that they were talking about

330
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,320
alien technology exotic technology

331
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,079
whatever you want to call it

332
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,320
why would they do that

333
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,240
kevin why there is

334
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:02,240
there is absolutely no answer to that

335
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,760
yes there is

336
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:05,360
there certainly is there has to be an

337
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,200
answer

338
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,760
the who what where when and why and in

339
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:11,360
most investigations and i'll tell you

340
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,639
this from 31 years doing homicide rape

341
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:16,240
personal uh

342
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:18,079
i want to know what their answer is why

343
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:20,399
did they make the press release i think

344
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,440
here's my

345
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:23,279
let me set the table for you okay and

346
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,000
keep in mind this is my hypothesis but

347
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:28,800
the question why has to be answered

348
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,160
that's the crux in the whole

349
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:32,480
investigation why would they admit and

350
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:34,399
then what eight 12 hours whatever go

351
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:36,959
from exotic technology to a mundane

352
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:39,680
explanation that it's a balloon

353
00:13:45,190 --> 00:13:41,839
all right so here's my hypothesis on

354
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:47,670
marcel and captain cavett you know i

355
00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:48,959
know there's a disagreement as to

356
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:51,200
whether he went there or not but major

357
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,560
marcel said he was present at the debris

358
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,639
said he went there too yeah but he then

359
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:58,560
he you're right he did and then he

360
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:00,959
recanted and said he wasn't there but he

361
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,800
was no i think it was the other way

362
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,720
around i think he was telling us and

363
00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:06,320
when i say yes again don schmidt and me

364
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:08,079
that he wasn't involved with this they

365
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,519
didn't do anything of this then when

366
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:11,040
colonel weaver came to visit he said

367
00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:12,800
yeah i went out there with mars i went

368
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:15,920
out there and talked about it so so

369
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,839
the point simply is kevin said both

370
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:19,440
things he was there and he wasn't there

371
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,839
correct marcel said that he was there

372
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:23,279
and uh but we don't know what mac

373
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:24,959
browser would have said because

374
00:14:28,829 --> 00:14:27,360
nobody talked here let me okay i'm gonna

375
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,839
i'm gonna give you my

376
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:31,279
hypothesis and this is based upon

377
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:34,000
first-hand eyewitness testimony no

378
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:36,480
hearsay know somebody saying they were

379
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,079
there that and they weren't

380
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:40,160
these are people that we can prove that

381
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:41,839
were there

382
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:43,120
all right

383
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:47,360
and uh mac brazil was was one of them

384
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:49,519
jesse marcel was another one and he was

385
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:51,120
a government official and i truly

386
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:53,440
believe they went out there

387
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,320
thinking that they were going to find

388
00:15:02,710 --> 00:14:59,440
a crashed airplane

389
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:02,720
there is no evidence indicating that ufo

390
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:04,720
flying saucer conversation was being

391
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:07,519
discussed between mack brazil and jesse

392
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:10,560
marcel in fact marcel in his own words

393
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:13,120
his i i saw the the eight millimeter

394
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:17,040
film when he was filmed in 1970 where he

395
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,800
said that they were going out there him

396
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:20,320
and cavett

397
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:22,720
to look for a downed aircraft thinking

398
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:25,199
that it was civilian because marcel knew

399
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:26,880
that they didn't have anything up or

400
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:32,949
and it wasn't until they got on scene

401
00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:34,800
and keep in mind

402
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,760
brazo had to show them so they

403
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,079
they rode together with brazo he left

404
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:42,240
his truck at the sheriff's office and

405
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:44,720
when they came back they dropped brazzle

406
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:46,800
off at the sheriff's office well on the

407
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:48,079
way back

408
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:49,680
cavett and marcel

409
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,000
were talking and they knew that they had

410
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,199
something that was exotic extraordinary

411
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:57,120
and brazil's sitting there listening to

412
00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:58,480
the conversation between these two

413
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:02,079
officers so when he gets dropped off

414
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:04,079
at the sheriff's department

415
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,880
and goes down to the local watering hole

416
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,360
in a matter of hours the entire town of

417
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:11,279
i live in a small town so i know how it

418
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:12,240
works

419
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:13,040
that

420
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:14,480
town had to be

421
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:15,680
a buzz

422
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,360
and i think the

423
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:18,959
commanding officer was getting phone

424
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:21,360
calls from base or off-base personnel

425
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,680
including the mayor and and the sheriff

426
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:26,720
and everything and he had a firestorm

427
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:29,120
on his hands

428
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:30,560
and he didn't know what he was dealing

429
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:33,600
with this thing was completely

430
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,839
unprepared they were not ready for what

431
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:37,680
dropped in their laps

432
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:39,680
and so the brush fire was already

433
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:41,680
burning in the civilian world in the

434
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:44,399
town of roswell

435
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:46,560
and i think i think blanchard made a

436
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:47,600
call

437
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:49,279
when he when he because they had he had

438
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:52,880
to give some kind of response because

439
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:56,160
everybody in the town was talking about

440
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:58,240
ufos and flying saucer and what crashed

441
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:03,430
and i think that brush fire was getting

442
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:06,160
out of hand so

443
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:07,919
excuse me

444
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:11,360
blanchard made an i we call

445
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:14,480
we call it a voluntary statement

446
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:16,000
all right or a dying declaration

447
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:17,439
whatever whatever term you want to put

448
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:19,839
in it you know it's kind of an all [\h__\h]

449
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:20,880
moment

450
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:23,360
and i think blanchard was caught

451
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,280
basically with his pants down and no

452
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:27,120
disrespect to him but he had something

453
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:29,600
on his hands that he wasn't prepared nor

454
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:31,600
did he have any manual any reference

455
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:33,760
that he could go to so he called it from

456
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:36,400
the cuff and when it came to be that it

457
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,720
truly was exotic material that's when

458
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:41,120
they had to squash it and come up with

459
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:42,720
some [\h__\h] explanation that it was a

460
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:45,200
balloon but i truly believe that answer

461
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:46,960
the why they made the admission was

462
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,880
because they got caught off guard and i

463
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:50,880
think blanchard called that from his

464
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:52,799
position and had him say okay yeah tell

465
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,360
him we got something exotic blah blah we

466
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,679
and the term you know the roswell daily

467
00:18:01,270 --> 00:17:59,280
record i think you know

468
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:01,280
air force captures flying saucer on a

469
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:03,679
ranch in roswell

470
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:06,110
well the only flaw in your theory

471
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:07,280
[Music]

472
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:10,559
is the idea that uh mac brazil left his

473
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,080
truck at the sheriff's office because

474
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:14,559
according to other information we have

475
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:16,160
they followed

476
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:18,640
i'm going by what marcel said marcel

477
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:21,280
said they followed him out he drove

478
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:24,160
his staff car and and kevin was in a

479
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:25,760
jeep carryall

480
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,640
and

481
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:28,720
they had to get to the crash site by

482
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:31,919
horseback yes brazil had to show them

483
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,320
they were in contact with the man

484
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:36,320
absolutely okay now

485
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:38,240
okay hey

486
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:39,919
let me let me say i'm going by what

487
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:42,559
marcel said i i've

488
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:44,559
seen the interview and he says that

489
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:47,760
brazo was with them and brazil overheard

490
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:50,160
the conversation that was going on where

491
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:52,320
was this before was this published

492
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:53,200
huh

493
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:55,120
this was in an interview with

494
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,039
um major marcel

495
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:59,280
1976 i think is the date on it when he

496
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:00,799
was interviewed well since marcel didn't

497
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:04,160
talk to anybody until 1978

498
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:10,549
where was this where was this

499
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:12,480
where can we see this

500
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:13,919
uh interview

501
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:15,360
well i think it's probably up on youtube

502
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:16,799
i haven't looked at it in a long time

503
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:22,470
and jesse marcel was was

504
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:24,000
not in the best of health in fact he

505
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:26,000
admits that that he wasn't in the best

506
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:27,520
of health but this interview takes place

507
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:29,840
and he explains what

508
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:31,760
uh what went on

509
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:33,520
um

510
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,240
in the desert and what took place

511
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,720
with the three of them have you

512
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,799
read have you read linda

513
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:42,160
carly's book

514
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:42,960
no

515
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:45,360
she interviewed marcel for four hours

516
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:46,720
and maybe the most comprehensive

517
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:48,799
interview conducted with the man

518
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:50,720
okay it's called for the sake of my

519
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:53,120
country it's available on amazon so you

520
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,880
could like have it

521
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:56,640
in 30 seconds

522
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:57,840
if you have

523
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:59,120
kindle

524
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:00,960
uh no i don't

525
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,830
in basic god ages here okay

526
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:09,679
come to the 21st century for crying in a

527
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:10,559
bucket

528
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,679
but

529
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:13,760
the fact of the matter is you have to

530
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:16,960
answer why and i think it was absolutely

531
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:21,520
and and i think that uh um a lot of the

532
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,320
uh rumors propaganda that surrounds

533
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:26,480
roswell kevin everybody's written a book

534
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:28,080
about the goddamn thing for christ's

535
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:30,559
sakes okay and everybody has opinion and

536
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:32,480
all i'm saying is i'm going by what the

537
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:35,600
government is stating yeah first and i

538
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:38,159
interviewed uh marcel jr for almost

539
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:40,640
three hours in a hotel room in laughlin

540
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,000
nevada

541
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:44,000
and he was a colonel himself

542
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:45,520
no he actually outranked me he was a

543
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:46,799
full colonel i was just a lousy

544
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:50,799
lieutenant colonel lc see he wins

545
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,070
if you're going by rank you're never

546
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:58,320
going to win colonel come on man

547
00:21:05,669 --> 00:20:59,280
you know

548
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:05,679
this is a first-hand eyewitness

549
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:08,559
that got a chance to handle and see the

550
00:21:12,789 --> 00:21:11,280
wreckage and once again it's coming from

551
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:12,799
he's a colonel he's even though he

552
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,960
wasn't military at the time his father

553
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:17,200
certainly was and he they lived on base

554
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:20,080
housing and he was no they didn't able

555
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,039
to

556
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:23,280
they didn't live on the bench

557
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:29,270
the fact of the matter is he was married

558
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,600
had a mother okay and he brought the

559
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:33,840
wreckage home to the boy

560
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:36,960
yes that's what he claims

561
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,559
oh i believe it i i don't you

562
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:41,760
once again

563
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:44,559
you have the government telling you his

564
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:46,240
father and then later in years when he's

565
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:47,520
a colonel he's part of the government

566
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:49,679
he's being up forward and forthright and

567
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:51,280
stating that he handled it that he saw

568
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:52,559
the wreckage

569
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,640
so you've got direct evident witness

570
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:56,400
testimony direct witness testimony

571
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:59,679
firsthand testimony from two people that

572
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:01,600
were there that handled the wreckage and

573
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:03,440
then you have the admission by the air

574
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,400
force that they captured

575
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,039
a flying saucer

576
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,000
and i think that in itself is really in

577
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,640
terms of a court of law is pretty

578
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:16,720
damning evidence

579
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,799
but the problem the problem is the

580
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:20,480
problem is if you bring that up in a

581
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:22,640
court of law

582
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,400
and i wanted to

583
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:26,559
argue the point i would bring in all the

584
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:29,280
newspaper clippings from 1947 and show

585
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:30,240
you

586
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:32,000
that rarely

587
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:34,960
did flying saucer translate to alien

588
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:37,200
spacecraft

589
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:39,039
that the majority of the article

590
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:41,120
suggested something more terrestrial in

591
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:43,760
nature it might have been exotic soviet

592
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:45,600
it might have been exotic american it

593
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:47,120
might have been exotic something or

594
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:48,000
other

595
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,600
but the fact they called it a flying

596
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,679
saucer does not directly translate to

597
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:53,600
the idea that it was an alien spacecraft

598
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,720
but it wasn't any of those kevin that if

599
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:58,720
if it if and

600
00:23:02,230 --> 00:23:00,640
what evidence what evidence do you have

601
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:02,240
other than testimony

602
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,760
that's the problem all we have is

603
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:05,360
testimony we don't have a piece of the

604
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:07,440
damn debris we don't have pictures of it

605
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:09,039
we don't have samples of anything we

606
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:10,000
have

607
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:12,159
wait a minute hey hold on a second man

608
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:13,520
take a breath

609
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:16,880
okay responding to you i know but

610
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:22,230
first of all i think that there is

611
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,520
evidence i think there is physical

612
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:25,520
evidence when you say we don't have it

613
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:26,960
you're right the researchers and the

614
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,640
investigators don't have their little

615
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:30,480
grubby hands on it for sure but it does

616
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:33,840
exist okay and the reason why it's not

617
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:36,559
soviet it wasn't nazi it wasn't chinese

618
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:38,480
and it wasn't ours because we have not

619
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:39,440
seen

620
00:23:43,270 --> 00:23:40,880
any of those

621
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:43,280
technologies that they gleaned from that

622
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:45,120
crash until just recently and i think

623
00:23:50,549 --> 00:23:48,080
some of it is surfacing as we speak but

624
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:50,559
we didn't the propulsion system [\h__\h]

625
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:52,799
we're still firing you know

626
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:55,520
chemistry rockets instead yeah so no

627
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:57,200
what i'm saying what i'm saying to you

628
00:24:01,750 --> 00:23:59,520
is and and somebody may have the

629
00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:01,760
evidence we don't have it so i'm looking

630
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:03,520
at it from a completely dispassionate

631
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:05,200
point of view

632
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:06,640
i'm trying to look at the evidence and

633
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,760
say what does the evidence prove

634
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:11,679
and when we get to that point and when

635
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,960
we get to that point we have testimony

636
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:16,799
and we have very little else we have

637
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:19,039
very limited documentation

638
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:20,799
uh i don't look at the newspapers as

639
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:22,960
being particularly persuasive evidence

640
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:25,440
simply because they're newspapers

641
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:27,360
and uh we can show a whole history of

642
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:29,520
newspapers making us i agree with you i

643
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:31,279
agree with you wholeheartedly that's the

644
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,840
reason why i go with with what the

645
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:35,760
government said

646
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,000
okay you have to get around that kevin

647
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:40,480
you can't that's like the big 300 pound

648
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,320
gorilla in the room that nobody wants to

649
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:44,559
acknowledge no the government actually

650
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:48,080
didn't say that a a colonel at a remote

651
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:49,840
base in new mexico said they had a

652
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:51,440
flying saucer but they didn't define

653
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:52,880
what it was

654
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,400
they said they had captured a flying

655
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:56,559
saucer and then let me get to the next i

656
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,600
think

657
00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:59,279
i'm sorry man i'm looking at it from a

658
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:00,880
cop's point of view

659
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:01,840
okay

660
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:03,840
and you can you can call it what you

661
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:05,360
want and i'm looking at it from an

662
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:06,960
intelligence officer's point of view and

663
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,480
understanding the military mind and how

664
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:10,480
these things work i'm looking at it from

665
00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:12,400
that point of view

666
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,039
and i'm telling you that

667
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:17,120
yeah you want the smoking gun and i

668
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:18,559
think that other

669
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:21,679
um uh cases yes i want the smoking gun

670
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:24,799
that's exactly right i want it to stop i

671
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:26,400
think it's there

672
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,360
okay

673
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:30,000
at this point we do not have it

674
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:33,039
oh i disagree with you but that's okay i

675
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:34,799
want to get back point

676
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:36,240
point to it where's the smoking gun

677
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,320
what's the smoking gun

678
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:40,320
i think you have to take

679
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:42,320
everything if you were to put it in a

680
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:43,600
court of law

681
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:46,880
okay the the roswell would be just one

682
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:48,960
aspect

683
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:50,400
of the case

684
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,320
that you would be making for the

685
00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:54,720
existence of extraterrestrial you have

686
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:56,480
just changed the parameters of the

687
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:58,159
discussion no

688
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,440
yes you have we were talking

689
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:01,200
specifically

690
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:02,559
wait a minute we were talking

691
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:04,400
specifically roswell and now you've

692
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:05,600
moved it to the point of view we're

693
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,200
going to bring all in this other

694
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,440
evidence and i would say

695
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:11,120
land is the perfect case to bring in

696
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,600
hold on a second you asked the question

697
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:15,520
where's the smoking gun i said i think

698
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:17,360
you we have to go okay what was talking

699
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:20,480
about so in order to do that you you i'm

700
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:22,880
talking about the entire

701
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:26,080
phenomena and i'm telling you roswell is

702
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,000
just one bullet in a chamber of six

703
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:32,480
and that the case to be made i think it

704
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:35,279
misfired yeah well and i i disagree with

705
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:38,080
you 100 kevin i tell you what i think i

706
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:45,590
not just cases but government admissions

707
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:46,880
throughout the

708
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:50,240
65 70 years cons going back to the

709
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:53,840
battle of los angeles for christ's sakes

710
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,880
okay so when we talk about roswell yeah

711
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:58,640
that's a specific incident but when you

712
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,200
talk about the smoking gun and making a

713
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,200
case for the existence

714
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,880
of extraterrestrials furthermore that

715
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:06,400
they're coming here and i'm one of those

716
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:07,760
people that believe that not only do

717
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:09,679
they come here but they're here i

718
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:10,880
believe they've got a base here

719
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:12,799
somewhere and um

720
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,880
and i'm saying you changed the

721
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:16,320
parameters of the discussion because

722
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,159
when i said where's a smoking gun i

723
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:20,559
meant specifically in the roswell case

724
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:22,400
you then bring in all this other

725
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,840
evidence i object i object to that by

726
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,440
because i want the smoking gun for

727
00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:29,360
roswell and when you look at the

728
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:31,120
evidence for roswell and you look at it

729
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:33,600
dispassionately and coldly

730
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:35,520
with either your cop's eye or my

731
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:37,919
intelligence officer's eye what you're

732
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,880
left with is some interesting testimony

733
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:42,559
some interesting description

734
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:45,039
descriptions of of the materials and i

735
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:46,799
think bill what bill brazil told me

736
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:49,279
personally in the interviews i conducted

737
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:50,720
with him and some of the other what

738
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:53,200
edwin easley told me personally edwin

739
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:55,919
easley the provost marshal i said to him

740
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:58,159
um are we following the right path and

741
00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:00,159
he said what do you mean i said i we

742
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:01,760
think it's extraterrestrial he said well

743
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:03,520
let me put it this way we're

744
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,600
you're not on the wrong path

745
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:07,919
but that's merely testimony and it may

746
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,080
be persuasive testimony especially

747
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:12,720
because easily has never really been um

748
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:14,799
i got enough information from a cop's

749
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:17,039
eye to get a search warrant

750
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:18,159
kevin

751
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,240
i can fill the four corners of a search

752
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:22,799
warrant okay concerning the roswell

753
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:24,880
incident

754
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:25,600
and

755
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,080
there's a there's enough evidence

756
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:30,640
from a cop's point of view

757
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:32,559
not only is there

758
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:37,039
flames okay

759
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:39,279
and i'm saying i'm saying i i got i get

760
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:40,559
that i understand that you can

761
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:42,880
investigate from that point of view i'm

762
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:44,159
saying when you get done with the

763
00:28:47,909 --> 00:28:45,760
investigation and you look at all the

764
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:47,919
evidence that has been presented since

765
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,960
1978 when jesse marcel revealed this to

766
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:52,159
the world

767
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:53,440
um

768
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:55,679
what we have what we have basically is

769
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:58,799
testimony and we have not found any

770
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,360
substantial corroborative uh testimony

771
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:03,360
we do not have multiple chains of

772
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,320
evidence we have the testimony we do not

773
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:08,720
have an analysis of metal we have

774
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:10,720
discussions about that from general

775
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:13,360
exxon for example actually and we have

776
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:15,279
well didn't see anything himself he's

777
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:17,279
reporting what his friends told him and

778
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,440
i have no reason to discount that

779
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:21,440
you know when you

780
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:24,320
it's not just testimony kevin it is

781
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:26,880
first-hand witness testimony that we

782
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:30,799
have and and the major player in all

783
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:33,279
this the united states air force makes

784
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:34,799
that a mission whether it comes from a

785
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:36,880
colonel at a remote base in new mexico

786
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:38,880
or it came out of the secretary of the

787
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:40,880
air force's office the fact of the

788
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,440
matter is they made the statement

789
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:45,360
actually it was the army that made the

790
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:51,350
army air force no it was the army air

791
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:53,360
forces the army air corps had deceased

792
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:56,000
to exist in 1942 and it became the army

793
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,960
air forces but what you have to remember

794
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:00,480
the only other evidence we have are the

795
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:02,000
photographs taken in general raymie's

796
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:03,760
office and what do the pictures in

797
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:06,480
general raymie's office show

798
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,960
tin foil and balsa wood and a weather

799
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:10,720
balloon

800
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,240
i guess

801
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:14,720
yes

802
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:17,600
okay yeah i mean

803
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:19,679
you know they showed they show us

804
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,120
um a propaganda picture with uh balsa

805
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:25,679
wood hey they had to for christ's sakes

806
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,520
they had a brush fire on their hands

807
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:29,600
okay they had to come up with something

808
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,600
to put that goddamn fire out because it

809
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:33,679
was getting out of control and so they

810
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,600
come up with a ridiculous explanation

811
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:37,840
the only sad thing about it kevin is the

812
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:40,720
press bought it

813
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:42,399
but they bought it hook line and sinker

814
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:44,159
they let them off the hook the press

815
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:45,360
bought it because they couldn't get to

816
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,760
any of the principles no

817
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:50,000
available marcel was unavailable brazil

818
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:51,760
was unavailable they couldn't he was

819
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:53,600
available and you know damn good and

820
00:30:56,789 --> 00:30:55,279
well that the president

821
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:56,799
uh white house press corps could have

822
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,320
been pushing for the secretary of the

823
00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:00,320
air force the secretary of defense and

824
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,320
they would have got a press release they

825
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:04,240
let him off the hook they got sold a

826
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:06,159
bill of goods and they and and they let

827
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,360
it lie they had it they had they the

828
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:11,600
press had it in their hands and they

829
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:12,559
left

830
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:17,350
how do you how do you go from a flying

831
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:19,039
saucer to balloon you mean to tell me

832
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:21,600
that major whose intelligence officer

833
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:24,640
for the 509th couldn't tell a goddamn

834
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,240
weather balloon and and it would have

835
00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:28,240
been the end of it there in the desert

836
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,520
end of story over with

837
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:33,919
but at lowe's we know that pros need to

838
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,039
be ready ready to roll felt ready to cap

839
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:39,440
ready to shingle and during lowe's ready

840
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,600
to raise the roof event pro customers

841
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:44,000
should get ready to save big with up to

842
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:46,799
20 on gaf shingles every day when they

843
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,360
buy in bulk plus now through july 16th

844
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:52,000
at lowe's pros can save up to 20 off

845
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:54,159
select hitachi nailers compressors and

846
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:56,480
power tools see the pro desk in store

847
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,399
for details shingle offer applies to

848
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,240
contractor packs selection varies by

849
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:02,880
store us only they had a goddamn

850
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:04,640
firestorm on their hands this was a

851
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:07,039
public relations nightmare and it's

852
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,200
starting in roswell and before it got

853
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:11,360
out of control it'd be all over the

854
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:13,440
goddamn planet and so they come up with

855
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:16,240
this ridiculous propaganda picture and

856
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,039
they made marcel hold it that was the

857
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:21,440
ultimate insult he's standing there

858
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:23,279
kneeling holding a goddamn piece of

859
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:26,799
balsa wood and tinfoil and he couldn't

860
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:29,039
recognize that out in the desert of new

861
00:32:33,269 --> 00:32:31,760
mexico are you kidding me i'm sorry man

862
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:33,279
i look at it from a cop point that

863
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:35,519
goddamn doesn't that doesn't pass the

864
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:38,399
smell test period sorry

865
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:41,679
i got wound up boy i guess well but it's

866
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:44,559
true oh my god not again

867
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:46,399
stop stopping at me for crying

868
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:47,600
government

869
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:49,519
so that's the case that i'm talking

870
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,720
about that is the crux about everything

871
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:55,120
the problem with your theory is

872
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:57,360
you have no evidence that there was a

873
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:00,000
firestorm building in roswell the hell i

874
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:01,840
don't what is your

875
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:03,760
possible daily record it's on the front

876
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:06,080
page of their goddamn paper and they got

877
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:08,559
started getting calls from the world no

878
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:09,279
no

879
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,360
you're a shouting at me for some bizarre

880
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,200
reason and um

881
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:17,200
kenny you settle down there kenny and

882
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,640
it's hurting my ears

883
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,080
i have to take my earphones off and

884
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:22,399
unplug my my

885
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:24,159
speaker here so that i can get something

886
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:25,039
said

887
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:26,960
but your response you're reacting to the

888
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,880
newspaper article which you said was a

889
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:30,880
response to the firestorm and i'm saying

890
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:32,399
you have no evidence that the firestorm

891
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,000
was building that they had to make the

892
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,000
press release there is no reason for

893
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,399
that press release that i can find and

894
00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:40,240
i've talked to a lot of people in the in

895
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:42,159
the area they knew nothing about this

896
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:43,840
until

897
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,149
ken

898
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:52,399
yeah no i'm i'm listening

899
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:55,039
to kevin you know digesting what he's

900
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:57,360
saying and i'm telling you when it's on

901
00:34:01,190 --> 00:34:00,080
the front page of the roswell daily

902
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:01,200
record

903
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:03,519
okay you can't have it both ways yes

904
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,880
it's on the front page of the roswell

905
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:07,440
daily record copies of the article i

906
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:08,960
have a copy of the article and you're

907
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,119
saying that blanchard responded to a

908
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:13,200
firestorm building in in roswell by

909
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:15,040
making the press release the press

910
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:16,320
releases on the front page of the

911
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:18,399
roswell daily record and you're saying

912
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:21,359
that that that the press release the

913
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:23,200
blanchard statement was in response to

914
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:25,440
the front page of the newspaper

915
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,359
you see what i'm saying here you you

916
00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:29,119
can't have it both ways it was either a

917
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:31,040
firestorm building in roswell and

918
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:32,639
blanchard was responding to that

919
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,960
firestorm and the response was the

920
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:36,720
newspaper article

921
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:39,440
i mean well the way i understand it that

922
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:41,359
he was getting inundated with phone

923
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:44,879
calls not until the article came out no

924
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,560
that's yes no i beg to differ with you

925
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:50,800
sir i think that i've talked to the

926
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:53,760
sheriff's office i've talked to the uh

927
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,240
public relations officer i've talked to

928
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:58,560
the various people involved there and

929
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:00,800
the phone calls were response to the

930
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:02,800
press release which came out and said

931
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:04,960
they had a flying saucer

932
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,480
hey for the sake of argument i'll give

933
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:08,880
you that okay i disagree with you but in

934
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:09,920
order to

935
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,160
it doesn't it doesn't answer why they

936
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,240
would do it though kevin and the only

937
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,200
thing that this is my hypothesis

938
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:19,440
and i say it doesn't work

939
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:20,960
because you have no evidence of a

940
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:22,960
firestorm in the roswell area about a

941
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,119
flying saucer i'm telling you that this

942
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:27,599
maple article comes out and that's the

943
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,320
that's where the storm started okay that

944
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:32,560
even makes it even more weird why would

945
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,119
they put the horse before the cart that

946
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:37,200
they weren't fully pressured

947
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:40,640
that's the problem we do not have a good

948
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:43,359
explanation for that newspaper article

949
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:45,119
and that's what i'm trying to give you i

950
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:47,359
told you it was a hypothesis but

951
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:50,720
something had to generate that why

952
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:53,359
something had to motivate absolutely

953
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,880
okay well then i'm giving you a

954
00:35:57,910 --> 00:35:56,640
hypothesis and you say it doesn't work

955
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:57,920
and that's fine and danny but i'm

956
00:36:02,069 --> 00:35:59,760
telling you it comes closest i don't

957
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:02,079
hear your hypothesis

958
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:10,310
kevin that's exactly my point the why we

959
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:12,960
know who what where when

960
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:15,440
we don't have the why and we and i agree

961
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:17,760
with you we don't have the y and i have

962
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,599
asked that question of an awful lot of

963
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,359
people and i gave you a working

964
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,760
hypothesis it may not cover you know you

965
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,839
brought up one negative in terms of this

966
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:27,200
is the reason why it works and i

967
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:29,119
disagree with you okay

968
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:30,720
i disagree with you because i think that

969
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:32,800
town was alive you had a civilian you

970
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:35,359
had two civilians involved one of them

971
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:38,960
okay is the sheriff for christ's sakes

972
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:42,560
wilcox is involved from the get-go

973
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:45,680
yeah and i'm called the base what's that

974
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:47,200
and he called the base

975
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:49,119
yeah exactly

976
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:50,720
that's what got the ball rolling that's

977
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,240
exactly my point and brazil conveyed the

978
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:56,480
conversation that he overheard between

979
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,400
cavett and marcel

980
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:59,920
to wilcox

981
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:01,680
and he went down to the local watering

982
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:02,880
hole

983
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,119
and i don't know what the time frame was

984
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:07,200
from when from when

985
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:10,240
marcel got on on on the debris field and

986
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:12,320
got back to the base

987
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:13,440
to when

988
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:15,440
brazil was in contact with the sheriff's

989
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:16,880
my understanding

990
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:18,480
they rode with him and he and they

991
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:19,599
brought him back because they had to go

992
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:22,000
get horses at his ranch that's how he

993
00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:24,000
understood it but here's that's not how

994
00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:26,079
i understand it i understand that

995
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,480
brazil found the material he went he

996
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:31,119
drove into roswell he told the sheriff

997
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,320
because he wanted to know who's going to

998
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:34,079
clean up the mess

999
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,599
he told the sheriff the sheriff called

1000
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:37,200
out to the base marcel came out to the

1001
00:37:40,870 --> 00:37:38,960
base talked to brazil looked at the some

1002
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:40,880
of the debris that he'd brought in and

1003
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:43,599
then uh talked to blanchard about it

1004
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,960
blanchard said well why don't you go out

1005
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,800
and check it out you've got this new cic

1006
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,640
guy take him with you which would that

1007
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:50,800
would have been cabinet so according to

1008
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:52,640
the information we have based on

1009
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:54,720
everything that we've seen is that

1010
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:57,839
brazil took them out to the ranch which

1011
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:58,720
is

1012
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:01,920
65 miles from roswell

1013
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:05,200
the the drip today takes three hours

1014
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:07,119
uh even on the better highways that they

1015
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:08,320
had

1016
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:13,200
he took him out to the side

1017
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,800
yeah he had old horses

1018
00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:18,720
marcel didn't ride

1019
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:20,880
cabot and brazil road and i think uh

1020
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,960
marcel followed him out in the uh jeep

1021
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,560
carryall

1022
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:26,480
and then uh they spent the day out there

1023
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:28,880
cavett sent i'm sorry marcel sent cavett

1024
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:31,920
back to the uh base then he went back

1025
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:34,000
with his car stopped at the house talked

1026
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,040
to his family i'm not disputing that i i

1027
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:39,359
that could very well be

1028
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:41,440
exactly how it went down and blanchard

1029
00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:43,760
was still a blanket i'm sorry razzle was

1030
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:44,839
still at the

1031
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,160
ranch he drove himself back to the ranch

1032
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:50,560
and if you want to get really deep into

1033
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:53,839
the woods according to um some people he

1034
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,480
had according to bessie brazil

1035
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,640
bessie brazo claimed that she

1036
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:01,200
and her brother went to roswell with uh

1037
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:02,640
and her mother went to roswell with

1038
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:04,720
browser when he took the debris in there

1039
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:06,079
and they were playing in the park by

1040
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:09,680
brazil was yapping with the sheriff

1041
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:11,280
right and there's and there's firsthand

1042
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:13,200
testimony for you betsy browser was

1043
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,720
there and

1044
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:16,960
and and that is i think makes my

1045
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:19,200
argument that the fact that you had

1046
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:23,040
these civilian people contact in contact

1047
00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:24,720
and hearing the conversation and

1048
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:27,920
discussion the term ufo or flying saucer

1049
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:30,880
wasn't mentioned until till marcel i

1050
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,440
believe got back on the base

1051
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,520
and and and him and kevin had to have

1052
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:37,200
been excited about what they were

1053
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:39,920
handling because marcel didn't recognize

1054
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:42,640
it neither did cabot and if sure in the

1055
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,680
hell was no goddamn balloon so so we're

1056
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,680
back and i think that goes to prove my

1057
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,160
point that you had civilian people in

1058
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:52,720
contact with a government operation and

1059
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:55,440
it was getting out of hand and blanchard

1060
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:57,520
that's my working hypothesis i think

1061
00:40:00,950 --> 00:40:00,000
this thing was he had to get ahead of it

1062
00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:00,960
okay

1063
00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:03,680
it was already out there people were

1064
00:40:07,750 --> 00:40:06,160
already talking about it people the i

1065
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:07,760
bet the switch i know how it is here in

1066
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:10,400
locust grove oklahoma man

1067
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:11,359
right

1068
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,400
it

1069
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:14,640
small town no and

1070
00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:16,000
in oklahoma do you still have do you

1071
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:17,680
have electricity yet

1072
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:18,800
what's that

1073
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,640
electricity you know power stuff

1074
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:24,960
hey we got squirrels chasing nuts in the

1075
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:26,880
cage how's that oh okay well just wanted

1076
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:29,440
to check that out no no but but but that

1077
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,560
goes to my hypothesis that answers why

1078
00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:34,560
but here's the other problem the ranches

1079
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:36,640
are extremely far apart

1080
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:38,720
there were no telephones at the brazil

1081
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:42,079
ranch he didn't have a radio

1082
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:42,960
uh

1083
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:46,240
he didn't have a facebook account

1084
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:48,079
no he's kind of like you

1085
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:49,200
hey

1086
00:40:51,510 --> 00:40:49,920
yeah

1087
00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:51,520
i like the guy already and i never he

1088
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:54,320
was he was still in the 19th century

1089
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,280
i like

1090
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,880
hey i'm trying to get back there for

1091
00:41:00,069 --> 00:40:58,480
christ's sakes

1092
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:00,079
hell yeah no

1093
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:02,800
necessarily a bad thing i think no no

1094
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,599
not at all right but but you know

1095
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:07,280
but we're way deep into the weeds and

1096
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,640
i'm not sure how many people are going

1097
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:10,560
to be interested in us discussing this

1098
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:12,400
in this detail in the weeds i think

1099
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:14,720
we've thoroughly trashed it or thrashed

1100
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:17,440
it i should say thrashed it not trash

1101
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,240
i you know until until we know the why

1102
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:22,079
and i think it has to be answered and i

1103
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:24,960
think that clarifies the picture and and

1104
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:27,200
it goes hey make no mistake about it

1105
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,480
roswell is the cornerstone of ufology or

1106
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:32,480
whatever you want to call it but it is

1107
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:33,599
if you can

1108
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:37,760
tear down the uh the believer case and

1109
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:40,880
i'm one of them okay and and the and the

1110
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:44,480
naysayers can go aha see then ufology

1111
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:46,160
starts to fall apart rather quickly

1112
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:48,160
because it is all i'm saying all i'm

1113
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:49,760
saying is at this point in the

1114
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:51,920
investigation after being involved with

1115
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:54,800
it since 1989 and talking to many of the

1116
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:56,000
principals who were involved the

1117
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:58,160
firsthand witnesses some of whom nobody

1118
00:42:01,349 --> 00:42:00,079
else ever talked to like edwin easley

1119
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:01,359
for example

1120
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:04,720
um we are left with a case that does not

1121
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:06,800
prove the extraterrestrial that's all

1122
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:09,359
i'm saying at one point i was one point

1123
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:10,880
i was convinced it was extraterrestrial

1124
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,160
at this point i i can can't say

1125
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:16,640
positively what it was that fell there

1126
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:19,359
it it seems to be exotic it seems to be

1127
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,160
something that was unrecognizable

1128
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:23,920
you can make the leap to the

1129
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,480
extraterrestrial if you so desire

1130
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:29,359
and it's not necessarily a inaccurate

1131
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:32,160
leap i'm merely saying for me

1132
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,240
i look at this stuff and and am

1133
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:36,000
disappointed in the quality of the

1134
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:38,240
evidence that is left behind and you

1135
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:39,760
keep bringing up

1136
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:42,720
jesse marcel and i think until you read

1137
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:44,640
corley's book

1138
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,880
until you look at the bob fred interview

1139
00:42:52,390 --> 00:42:49,680
that was conducted with him and look at

1140
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:52,400
all of the problems that are generated

1141
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:56,000
by those two items that we've got we're

1142
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,240
going to be far apart in the discussion

1143
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:02,480
well see and i take a different track i

1144
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:06,160
i don't say that roswell is the proof

1145
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:08,640
i i told you before it's one

1146
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:10,960
shell in a chamber of six

1147
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:13,440
and you i use that analogy because you

1148
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:16,560
want the smoking gun okay and you have

1149
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,880
to you have to look at the

1150
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:20,640
when you look at the smoking gun and the

1151
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:23,520
existence for extraterrestrial okay

1152
00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:25,440
and and

1153
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:28,160
roswell fits in there

1154
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:30,720
but as well but once again once again

1155
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:32,079
you've moved the gold post because we

1156
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:33,520
were talking about roswell if you want

1157
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:35,920
to talk about other cases

1158
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:37,760
for the extraterrestrial i would say

1159
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:39,520
level land is probably one of the best

1160
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:42,319
cases i would say bent waters kind of

1161
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,359
meanders in that direction um

1162
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:47,760
but i think it has been contaminated by

1163
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:50,240
again the wannabes jumping into the

1164
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:53,280
under the bandwagon well and and

1165
00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:54,800
hey

1166
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:56,960
but i'm looking i'm looking for multiple

1167
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:58,800
chains of evidence not just the witness

1168
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,880
testimony i'm looking for something else

1169
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:03,040
and if you go back to the french academy

1170
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:04,880
of science when they said that there was

1171
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:05,760
no

1172
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,560
um

1173
00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:08,960
rocks do not fall from the sky

1174
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:11,440
and a year later they reversed their

1175
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:13,839
their point of view after a case was

1176
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:16,240
built of a rock falling from the sky

1177
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,480
based on the examination of multiple

1178
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,359
chains of evidence and we have some ufo

1179
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:23,280
cases where we have these multiple

1180
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:25,520
chains of evidence roswell is not one of

1181
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:27,119
them because all we have at roswell

1182
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:29,760
basically at this point is one or two

1183
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:32,400
lousy government documents the fbi telex

1184
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:34,640
for example uh the possibility of the

1185
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,119
raimi memo which could in fact be the

1186
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:39,760
smoking gun but we have not been able to

1187
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:42,079
decipher it yet

1188
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:45,440
there were things going on that uh

1189
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:48,240
that suggested it might be readable

1190
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:50,720
in the context of the time and if and if

1191
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:52,720
it says certain things as david rudiak

1192
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:55,359
postulates saying uh victims of the

1193
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,880
wreck and they're talking about a disc

1194
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:58,240
in the recovery

1195
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:00,640
that is becoming that becomes very

1196
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,040
important evidence simply because it

1197
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,040
leads us in that direction and we have

1198
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:07,359
the exact provenance of the document

1199
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:09,760
raymie's holding it in his hand so we

1200
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:11,200
know where it came from and we know the

1201
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:12,800
date the photograph was taken because it

1202
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:15,920
was transmitted over the ins wire at 11

1203
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:19,680
59 p.m on july 8th i mean you can't get

1204
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:21,599
a better providence for a document than

1205
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:22,400
that

1206
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:24,000
the unfortunate thing is right now

1207
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:26,480
there's not a consensus is what the memo

1208
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:30,160
says that could be a smoking gun

1209
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:32,720
for us that leads us more

1210
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,160
closely to the um extraterrestrial but

1211
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:39,119
as i say when you look at the context of

1212
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:40,319
the time

1213
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:42,560
read the newspapers not only the stories

1214
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:45,599
about roswell but all the stuff going on

1215
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:48,800
and uh the multiplicity of hoaxes being

1216
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:50,640
being uh

1217
00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:53,599
made and looking at the

1218
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:56,079
explanations for what both kenneth

1219
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:57,520
arnold saw and what other people were

1220
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,720
seeing in the skies all i'm saying is

1221
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:03,200
flying saucer does not necessarily

1222
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,720
translate into alien spacecraft you've

1223
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:08,960
postulated that flying saucer it

1224
00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:11,040
translates to alien spacecraft i say in

1225
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,000
the time

1226
00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:14,319
based on looking at all this other stuff

1227
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:19,510
okay

1228
00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:21,680
i i i don't know i don't know what to

1229
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:23,599
say to you on that okay other than have

1230
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:24,800
you read the news have you read the

1231
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:27,520
newspapers a lot of the newspapers yeah

1232
00:46:33,230 --> 00:46:29,119
yeah from that time so you've seen the

1233
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:33,240
multiplicity of explanations but well

1234
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,760
multiplicity of explanations yeah

1235
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:37,520
everything from uh

1236
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:40,640
swamp gas to uh no they didn't get they

1237
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:53,270
listen to me i have

1238
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:54,480
i have

1239
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,720
the explanation you want it's from a

1240
00:47:01,589 --> 00:46:59,040
kansas newspaper it says

1241
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:01,599
flying saucers seen in 38 states except

1242
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:04,400
kansas because kansas was a dry state

1243
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,069
that works better than swamp gas for

1244
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,079
this i don't know man uh al capone was

1245
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:13,760
pretty big in kansas city that they

1246
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:15,440
weren't drinking he sure was selling a

1247
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,400
lot of whiskey some

1248
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:20,240
i'm not talking kansas city and that's

1249
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:24,390
excuse me

1250
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:25,680
kansas city's in missouri there's a

1251
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,599
kansas city kansas that's just as big as

1252
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:29,280
kansas city low man it's on the wrong

1253
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:31,119
side of the river

1254
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:33,119
you guys are arguing about this what can

1255
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:35,760
i tell you he's right he's right hey um

1256
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:37,200
hey let me this what happened what

1257
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:39,040
happened to the host he just

1258
00:47:42,790 --> 00:47:40,800
disappeared from the conversation i'm

1259
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:42,800
i'm i'm just sitting back and enjoying

1260
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:44,960
this with some popcorn in the glass you

1261
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:47,440
should be moderating here moderating i

1262
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:49,920
i've interrupted a few times when ken

1263
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:53,280
has overspoke uh kevin so yeah

1264
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:54,640
yeah

1265
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,920
hey i got chastised where were you

1266
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:59,520
can you you're holding your own pretty

1267
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:01,520
good but um i'm gonna have to give kevin

1268
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:04,319
uh a point a point up on you

1269
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:07,040
a point up on me yeah

1270
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:08,640
there you go i know because he's a

1271
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:10,960
colonel and i'm a sergeant god damn it

1272
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:12,880
um

1273
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:16,240
e5 e6 e7 what kind of sergeant

1274
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:17,760
that was a staff

1275
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:19,920
that would be an e6 well what service

1276
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,760
army

1277
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:23,040
do what to who

1278
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:24,480
what what service were you a staff

1279
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:26,880
sergeant what branch of the service air

1280
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:30,160
force oh that's air force i was in

1281
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,480
i was a strategic i was in the strategic

1282
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:34,640
air command i was stationed at offutt

1283
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:36,240
air force base once you get on it you

1284
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,760
can't get off it at the omaha nebraska i

1285
00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:41,280
know where offutt air force base is i've

1286
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:42,880
driven yeah well you went to school at

1287
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,960
uh at the thunderbird

1288
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,880
hinckley high school

1289
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:48,400
yes i did yeah

1290
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:50,000
listen i know more about you than you

1291
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:52,800
know about you pal okay yeah

1292
00:48:57,030 --> 00:48:54,480
okay how's this for you we just had our

1293
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:57,040
50th anniversary high school reunion uh

1294
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:58,960
how many people showed up

1295
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:00,160
12

1296
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:06,230
i wasn't one of them by the way

1297
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:09,920
uh but anyway i you know

1298
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:11,520
what other questions have you asked stan

1299
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:12,640
that he didn't give you a good answer

1300
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:13,839
for

1301
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:15,040
um

1302
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:16,960
the well the one that we've been

1303
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,119
discussing this past hour and the other

1304
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:21,440
one um is

1305
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,040
how come

1306
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:25,440
we don't see anything

1307
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:31,270
the air force manual and having been in

1308
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:32,400
i mean i don't know how it was in the

1309
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:33,839
other commands but it's strategic air

1310
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:36,720
command if you had a major foo bar

1311
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:40,160
okay you got all kinds of uh

1312
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,640
instructions on on how to handle it the

1313
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:44,640
next time training manuals if you will

1314
00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:46,559
and we don't see anything in the

1315
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:49,280
communiques of the air force or other

1316
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:52,319
services for that matter in balloon

1317
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:54,000
recollection so we don't have to go

1318
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:56,559
through this fiasco again because it was

1319
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:59,119
a major foo bar okay

1320
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:01,920
it was it was a it was a mess up from

1321
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:04,079
from the moment that uh blanchard sent

1322
00:50:08,390 --> 00:50:06,559
marcel and cavett out there till you

1323
00:50:10,829 --> 00:50:08,400
know they said it was uh a weather

1324
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:10,839
balloon it was a it was a

1325
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:14,559
um nightmare for the army air force army

1326
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:16,640
air corps whoever you want to call them

1327
00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:18,640
they had they had a hot potato on their

1328
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:19,520
hands

1329
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:20,880
okay

1330
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:22,160
the press was

1331
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:23,599
starting to get the smell that's the

1332
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,760
reason why they held that [\h__\h] press

1333
00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:27,599
conference and put out that propaganda

1334
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,839
folder they had to do something kevin

1335
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:31,760
and that goes back the press conference

1336
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:33,760
held in fort worth was a response the

1337
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:35,599
press release that was made in roswell

1338
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:38,079
okay okay i i'm not it was a direct

1339
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:39,680
response to that

1340
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:42,480
but but but the fact of the matter is

1341
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:44,319
they were pressured in doing something

1342
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:47,280
and the press let them off the hook they

1343
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:48,880
weren't working about that the press

1344
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:51,680
stepped all the the breasts blew it

1345
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:53,359
and so but

1346
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:56,400
you have to you have to understand that

1347
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:58,880
uh the military was controlling all the

1348
00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:00,319
witnesses

1349
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:03,200
and if you look back there's uh uh uh

1350
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:06,480
interview with uh wilcox sheriff wilcox

1351
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:09,280
hey and he's being he's being quizzed by

1352
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:11,119
the reporters and he says i can't tell

1353
00:51:14,470 --> 00:51:12,480
you enough i'm working with those boys

1354
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,480
out at the base let me shift gears for

1355
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:16,079
you a little bit here and that is you

1356
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:17,680
made a statement earlier i wrote it down

1357
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:18,800
here that

1358
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:21,760
um you don't know what crashed that's

1359
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:23,839
right okay but you acknowledge that

1360
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:25,920
something came down right there's no

1361
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:27,520
question about that it wasn't a weather

1362
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:29,040
balloon right

1363
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,280
it was as far as i can tell it was no

1364
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:33,119
kind of weather balloon that's correct

1365
00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:35,920
so through the process of elimination

1366
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:38,079
all right it had to be something other

1367
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:41,760
than a mundane object

1368
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:42,720
yes

1369
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:46,240
we're all in agreement on that okay so

1370
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:48,240
you know we have

1371
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:51,359
probably several possibilities one of

1372
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,359
them being extraterrestrial one of them

1373
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:55,440
being russian i i

1374
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:58,000
truly i think you can blow the nazi and

1375
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:00,960
russian uh explanation out of the water

1376
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:04,160
in a very short and rather uh expedient

1377
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,559
since the nazis didn't exist in 1947 and

1378
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:08,000
pretty well have lost the war we can

1379
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,760
eliminate the nazis

1380
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:11,440
uh according to all the information i've

1381
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:12,960
been able to i don't know werner von

1382
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:15,440
braun was around he was a nazi

1383
00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:17,760
was he a nazi yeah he was a nazi he was

1384
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,760
part of the wesley park

1385
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:21,440
yeah because if you don't join the nazi

1386
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:23,040
party he ended up in a concentration

1387
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:25,680
camp well be that as it may he was a

1388
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:32,309
you do not know that you're just you're

1389
00:52:34,510 --> 00:52:34,160
just throwing stuff out here for no good

1390
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:34,520
reason

1391
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:36,160
[Laughter]

1392
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:37,599
but the point

1393
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:39,280
shows him given that a nazi salute we're

1394
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:43,040
in a nazi armband in in berlin

1395
00:52:48,069 --> 00:52:45,680
yeah everybody else he was given a high

1396
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:48,079
level position uh because of his science

1397
00:52:51,910 --> 00:52:50,559
status in the in the technology

1398
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:51,920
department

1399
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:53,520
it was not a nazi and there was not a

1400
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:55,680
nazi regime to be flying

1401
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:58,400
flying saucers around the nazis are gone

1402
00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:00,160
and i was going to say the soviets had

1403
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:02,160
no capability in reaching roswell with

1404
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:03,200
anything

1405
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:05,520
okay you're making my argument for me

1406
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:08,240
yes i am i'm telling you yeah i'll tell

1407
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:09,599
you there was nothing that was missing

1408
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,319
from white sands missile range

1409
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:14,160
okay i've got i've got a list of all the

1410
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:15,920
rocket launches from white sand missile

1411
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:17,520
ranges nothing missing from there the

1412
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:19,599
air force will tell you that they looked

1413
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:21,839
for aircraft accident records and there

1414
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,680
was nothing there that they could find

1415
00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:25,680
the one thing i will tell you

1416
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:27,920
that in 1947 the size and shape of the

1417
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:31,359
atomic bomb happened to be classified

1418
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,079
so that and i'm not postulating this is

1419
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,880
the explanation i am merely saying that

1420
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:39,040
if it had been an aircraft with a

1421
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:40,640
mock-up of the atomic bomb because it

1422
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,839
wouldn't be flying the real things

1423
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:43,680
around but they needed them for training

1424
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:45,680
purposes that had crashed then there

1425
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:48,000
would be an excuse for

1426
00:53:53,430 --> 00:53:51,829
covering covering the thing up because

1427
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:53,440
they're they're dealing with classified

1428
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:54,880
material

1429
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:57,599
and so now i'm postulating a theory for

1430
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:59,040
you that the reason that blanchard

1431
00:54:01,510 --> 00:54:00,400
issued the press release saying it was a

1432
00:54:03,670 --> 00:54:01,520
flying saucer is because they didn't

1433
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:03,680
want to admit they dumped a b-29 with an

1434
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:09,829
again

1435
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:12,319
i'm i'm having a hard time uh swallowing

1436
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:16,720
that one okay because here it is 2017

1437
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:19,520
and their official position is that it

1438
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:21,440
was project mogul balloon still a

1439
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:23,440
balloon um

1440
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:26,559
and and so that and the fact that well

1441
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:27,839
wait a minute

1442
00:54:32,549 --> 00:54:30,160
we don't have there's no indication that

1443
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:32,559
there was any kind of radiation uh

1444
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:35,520
recovery team practice atomic bomb i

1445
00:54:39,829 --> 00:54:37,280
said nothing about it real autonomous

1446
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:39,839
okay okay okay but even the shape and

1447
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:41,920
the size classified at the time and if

1448
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,079
they dumped a b-29 with a practice

1449
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:46,079
atomic bomb on it that would have made

1450
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:48,480
it a classified event so was project

1451
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:50,480
mogul project mogul was top secret but

1452
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:52,559
it isn't now and if it was a dummy

1453
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:53,760
warhead

1454
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,280
mogul is irrelevant because what you're

1455
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:57,200
talking about is the university of new

1456
00:55:01,990 --> 00:55:00,160
of of new york's balloon project and it

1457
00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:02,000
was not classified the balloons were

1458
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:03,280
flying all over the place there's

1459
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:04,640
pictures of them in the newspaper on

1460
00:55:08,410 --> 00:55:14,230
[Laughter]

1461
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:15,589
what i'm saying to you and you don't

1462
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:17,680
seem to understand is

1463
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:22,790
of what it could be

1464
00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:25,680
it doesn't seem to be any of those we

1465
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:29,119
are left with an exotic event in roswell

1466
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:30,720
that does not

1467
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:34,079
prove its alien it suggests it's alien

1468
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:36,640
but the evidence to make that case a

1469
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:39,119
hundred percent does not exist there is

1470
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:40,880
the possibility there was something else

1471
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:44,160
going on that we have not we have not uh

1472
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:46,880
um stumbled onto nick redford is talking

1473
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:49,440
about units 731 in his latest book and

1474
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,480
he makes

1475
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:52,640
he brings in some documentation about

1476
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:54,640
all of that how it was classified in

1477
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:57,440
1947 and it had been something with that

1478
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:59,359
that might have been an excuse for being

1479
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:00,880
classified

1480
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:02,720
at the time i prefer the idea that it

1481
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,400
was an atomic bomb simply because the

1482
00:56:07,829 --> 00:56:06,400
size and shape were classified and they

1483
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:07,839
didn't want people talking about what

1484
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:10,400
they might have seen if you read witness

1485
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:14,079
to roswell by kerry and um schmidt

1486
00:56:17,829 --> 00:56:16,160
they talk about a guy and

1487
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:17,839
i always forget his name i want to say

1488
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:19,520
his newly but i'm not sure it is talking

1489
00:56:22,630 --> 00:56:21,760
about how he had been in one area of the

1490
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:22,640
base

1491
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,280
in november of 1947 and he was working

1492
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:27,359
on an aircraft and the mps chased him

1493
00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:29,599
off he said well i had lying badge i

1494
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:31,520
could be there and all of that stuff but

1495
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:33,359
he wasn't cleared for

1496
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,640
the um

1497
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:36,799
uh the the stuff dealing with the atomic

1498
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,280
weapons and he was working on a silver

1499
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:41,280
plate b-29 which is the real clue those

1500
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:43,040
are the ones that carried the uh were

1501
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:45,280
modified to carry the atomic weapons

1502
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:47,119
but he's talking about something that he

1503
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:49,040
saw that sounds suspiciously like the

1504
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:52,400
mk3 atomic bomb so we can eliminate that

1505
00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:55,119
particular story from all the eyewitness

1506
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:56,799
testimony because he was mistaken in

1507
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:59,920
what he saw i am merely saying

1508
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:00,880
that

1509
00:57:06,789 --> 00:57:04,000
when we look at this dispassionately

1510
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:06,799
that to invent interstellar flight or an

1511
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:08,480
explanation

1512
00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:10,079
doesn't necessarily

1513
00:57:13,510 --> 00:57:12,160
get the simplest explanation available

1514
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:13,520
for us

1515
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:15,760
but we have no other explanation and

1516
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:18,799
that's where i'm hung up i cannot say

1517
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:20,720
beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was

1518
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:23,520
an alien spacecraft

1519
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:25,359
but there seems to be no other

1520
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:27,440
terrestrial explanation for it which is

1521
00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:28,880
not to say there isn't that we just

1522
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:31,520
don't know about no and i and i i agree

1523
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:32,559
with you

1524
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:35,440
okay based on on that statement

1525
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:38,640
yeah there there is no uh flying saucer

1526
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:39,359
on

1527
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:41,920
what what came down in roswell

1528
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:44,640
all right i'm not i'm not arguing that

1529
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:47,440
what i am saying is is that i think from

1530
00:57:52,549 --> 00:57:49,760
an investigator's standpoint looking at

1531
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:52,559
it through a cop's eye

1532
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:55,599
that there is sufficient evidence there

1533
00:58:01,109 --> 00:57:57,040
is sufficient

1534
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,119
uh probable cause to to believe

1535
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:03,119
and you could get a warrant based upon

1536
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:05,920
the information i don't have to i don't

1537
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:08,559
have to see the cocaine in the basement

1538
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:11,040
to obtain the warrant kevin i understand

1539
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:12,559
that i i i

1540
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:14,079
showed you

1541
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:15,520
when you get the warrant you better find

1542
00:58:19,829 --> 00:58:17,040
the cocaine in the basement not

1543
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:19,839
necessarily that's not true either all i

1544
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:21,599
have to do is show that cocaine was

1545
00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:23,200
there

1546
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:24,319
but you know

1547
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:25,680
you can't show there was an alien

1548
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:27,680
spacecraft in roswell all you have is

1549
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,559
some testimony um and it's becoming a

1550
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:34,400
big deal

1551
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:36,720
hey i'm looking at it from being able to

1552
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,799
prove it in a court of law

1553
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:40,240
i can't

1554
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:42,000
and i say i can

1555
00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:44,640
i think that you can show that there's

1556
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:46,559
reasonable suspicion and there's

1557
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:49,440
probable cause to believe

1558
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:51,200
i've written enough goddamn warrants to

1559
00:58:53,109 --> 00:58:52,400
know that

1560
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:53,119
and

1561
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:54,720
that's irrelevant

1562
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:56,720
it's not irrelevant it's very relevant

1563
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:59,119
we're talking about being able to okay

1564
00:59:02,150 --> 00:59:00,720
let's move it to the point of science

1565
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:02,160
then and take it out of the courtroom

1566
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:03,440
where this doesn't really belong it

1567
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:05,760
belongs in the the arena of science i

1568
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,359
just don't have the evidence [\h__\h] if

1569
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:09,359
we listen to science kevin we'd still

1570
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:10,880
think the earth was flat and we could

1571
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,240
never go to the moon and we wouldn't

1572
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:14,559
break the sound barrier science that's

1573
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:17,599
crapola too and you know it

1574
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:18,799
[\h__\h]

1575
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,680
okay

1576
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:21,359
then who broke the sound barrier who

1577
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:23,359
discovered the earth the greeks for

1578
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:25,040
god's sakes knew the earth was around

1579
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:27,200
him they calculated the circumference to

1580
00:59:30,630 --> 00:59:29,119
a pretty accurate degree back to the

1581
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:30,640
mines

1582
00:59:35,190 --> 00:59:33,200
the egyptians knew about it too so why

1583
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:35,200
why did the catholic church tell them

1584
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:37,520
that the the that the ocean that the

1585
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:39,920
planet was flat why did the jesuit

1586
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,599
priest refuse to look through the

1587
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:42,960
telescope

1588
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:45,040
and the one that did lied about what he

1589
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,240
saw because science has a dog

1590
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:50,400
no no no you're

1591
00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:52,240
you're now saying religion didn't look

1592
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:53,920
through the telescope not that science

1593
00:59:57,190 --> 00:59:55,760
galileo was the scientist he was looking

1594
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:57,200
through the telescope and say look what

1595
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:58,640
we found

1596
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:01,119
and the jesuit priests were science too

1597
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:03,200
because that's what they preached on

1598
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:05,280
if they were religious leaders they were

1599
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:07,920
not scientists

1600
01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:14,230
who invented the airplane to fly the uh

1601
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:16,319
but beyond the sound barrier break the

1602
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:18,160
sound barrier then science was involved

1603
01:00:22,390 --> 01:00:20,400
in that now you're discrediting science

1604
01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:22,400
for absolutely no good reason with a lot

1605
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:23,760
of nonsense

1606
01:00:26,309 --> 01:00:25,440
well they didn't do this and they said

1607
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,319
this

1608
01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:28,559
hey whoa captain you said take it out of

1609
01:00:33,430 --> 01:00:30,400
the courtroom and into the science and i

1610
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:33,440
go [\h__\h] i go by what i can prove i

1611
01:00:37,829 --> 01:00:35,520
go by what you can't pronounce

1612
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:37,839
roswell was alien you cannot

1613
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:39,520
felon you cannot prove what fell at

1614
01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:42,400
roswell was alien no i i didn't say i

1615
01:00:47,430 --> 01:00:45,200
could i said it is one shell in the

1616
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:47,440
chamber of six and we're talking about

1617
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:50,160
it the larger picture and once we show

1618
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:52,559
that then we can prove that what fell at

1619
01:00:57,910 --> 01:00:55,520
roswell was an alien technology it fits

1620
01:00:59,670 --> 01:00:57,920
in there okay you can't prove

1621
01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:59,680
you can't prove it by bringing in all

1622
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:02,160
this other other information from other

1623
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:03,920
cases to prove what fell at roswell was

1624
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:05,839
alien you need something more to do

1625
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:07,680
about it hey kevin it proves that

1626
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:09,760
extraterrestrials are here it probably

1627
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:15,910
okay and and where are you ken are you

1628
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:17,200
there

1629
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:19,280
yeah

1630
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:21,440
gentlemen guess what let's take a break

1631
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:22,640
let's take a break and we're going to

1632
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:24,160
get into mufon after the break we're

1633
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:25,680
going to we're going to cut ties with

1634
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:27,040
we're going to cut ties with i'd like to

1635
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:29,359
say one thing sure go ahead go ahead now

1636
01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:32,319
i'm going to miss silicon valley

1637
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:34,319
damn it jim

1638
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:39,349
kevin

1639
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,760
interviewed jan harzon on june 14th and

1640
01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:43,440
kevin apparently you didn't get some

1641
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:44,720
answers you thought you'd get is that

1642
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:46,559
correct

1643
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:48,880
he uh dodged some of the questions very

1644
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,400
nicely

1645
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:52,880
so yes i did not get answers

1646
01:01:56,390 --> 01:01:54,240
and what answers were you looking for

1647
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:56,400
what was he dodging

1648
01:01:59,349 --> 01:01:57,440
well

1649
01:02:01,589 --> 01:01:59,359
i i don't know how much you've discussed

1650
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:01,599
about this in the past but in the middle

1651
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:03,920
of may at lowe's we know that pros need

1652
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:06,640
to be ready ready to roll felt ready to

1653
01:02:11,109 --> 01:02:09,200
cap ready to shingle and during lowe's

1654
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:11,119
ready to raise the roof event pro

1655
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:13,520
customers should get ready to save big

1656
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:16,559
with up to 20 on gaf shingles every day

1657
01:02:21,030 --> 01:02:18,480
when they buy in bulk plus now through

1658
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,040
july 16th at lowe's pros can save up to

1659
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:23,520
20 off select hitachi nailers

1660
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:25,760
compressors and power tools see the pro

1661
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:28,000
desk in store for details shingle offer

1662
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:29,839
applies to contractor packs selection

1663
01:02:34,950 --> 01:02:33,119
varies by store us only hey uh john

1664
01:02:36,630 --> 01:02:34,960
bentry who was the state section

1665
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:36,640
director i'm sorry state director of

1666
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:40,319
mufon for pennsylvania and delaware

1667
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:42,160
went on facebook with a pretty much

1668
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:44,559
racist rant

1669
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:45,680
there were a number of people who

1670
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:47,760
responded that rant unfavorably they

1671
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:49,839
didn't they didn't care for it

1672
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:52,799
um harzon's initial response was hey

1673
01:02:57,030 --> 01:02:55,359
it's free speech and who's worse the guy

1674
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:57,040
that makes the comment or the haters who

1675
01:03:01,829 --> 01:02:59,119
comment upon it which was pretty much a

1676
01:03:03,990 --> 01:03:01,839
non-apology

1677
01:03:05,109 --> 01:03:04,000
not long after that

1678
01:03:07,349 --> 01:03:05,119
uh

1679
01:03:08,549 --> 01:03:07,359
ventri was fired from being the state

1680
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:08,559
director

1681
01:03:12,870 --> 01:03:11,200
of pennsylvania and delaware well i got

1682
01:03:14,230 --> 01:03:12,880
to looking into this and discovered

1683
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:14,240
something and i'm not sure it's much of

1684
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:15,680
a discovery there was something called

1685
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:18,319
the inner circle and mufon

1686
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:19,839
and if you go to the mufon website i

1687
01:03:23,270 --> 01:03:21,839
mean you can click on it you can learn

1688
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:23,280
all about it but a lot of the mufon

1689
01:03:26,950 --> 01:03:24,880
members i spoke to didn't have an idea

1690
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:26,960
that this thing existed and what it is

1691
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:29,119
if you uh shell out five grand a year

1692
01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:31,200
you can be on the inner circle

1693
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:33,119
in john bentry's in the inner circle

1694
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:34,720
well that got me interested in who else

1695
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:36,000
is in the inner circle they give the

1696
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:38,079
list there's 13 names on it

1697
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:39,440
and

1698
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:41,520
i find no significance in that number

1699
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:44,319
although others may find that 13 is a

1700
01:03:48,390 --> 01:03:46,240
bizarre number for them to have in the

1701
01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:48,400
inner circle uh harzan's in the inner

1702
01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:49,920
circle and i looked at some of the other

1703
01:03:54,150 --> 01:03:51,839
people and came up with a

1704
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:54,160
woman named jay-z knight

1705
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:57,200
who in 2011 11 got into a pretty much a

1706
01:04:01,270 --> 01:03:59,920
drunken rant in front of an audience

1707
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:01,280
um

1708
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:02,640
which was pretty much racial and

1709
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:04,160
ethnically driven

1710
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:06,160
and so i was wondering about that sort

1711
01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:07,760
of thing and i wanted to talk to him

1712
01:04:10,870 --> 01:04:09,440
about

1713
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:10,880
the

1714
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:15,280
and what what is being done on about it

1715
01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:17,200
and and he said well you know we fired

1716
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:18,720
we fired um

1717
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:20,720
ventri from that i discovered that uh

1718
01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:22,720
and i shouldn't say i discovered

1719
01:04:26,950 --> 01:04:25,280
lon strickler had discovered it that

1720
01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:26,960
ventri was merely moved into two

1721
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:30,079
different positions of power in in mufon

1722
01:04:33,430 --> 01:04:32,079
uh jay-z knight when i asked him about

1723
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:33,440
that he said well if he was a state

1724
01:04:36,710 --> 01:04:34,799
director i'd fire her which i thought

1725
01:04:39,910 --> 01:04:36,720
was a pretty much flip answer

1726
01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:39,920
uh didn't seem concerned at the tone of

1727
01:04:42,950 --> 01:04:41,280
of

1728
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:42,960
these things and then

1729
01:04:46,069 --> 01:04:44,880
alibited by saying well it's free speech

1730
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:46,079
they can say whatever they want i'm

1731
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:47,359
thinking yeah you can say whatever you

1732
01:04:50,710 --> 01:04:48,960
want but there oftentimes is

1733
01:04:52,230 --> 01:04:50,720
consequences to free speech and one of

1734
01:04:53,190 --> 01:04:52,240
those if you offend enough a lot of

1735
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:53,200
people

1736
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:54,720
you're going to find yourself out of a

1737
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:57,359
job and yet his attitude seemed to be

1738
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:59,039
well we don't really care and the inner

1739
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:00,640
circle is just really

1740
01:05:05,349 --> 01:05:03,359
not a profit center but a donation level

1741
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:05,359
organization because you donate the five

1742
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:06,720
grand and you can be in the inner circle

1743
01:05:10,950 --> 01:05:08,720
and it doesn't really affect

1744
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,960
the daily operation of mufon but if you

1745
01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:12,480
read the

1746
01:05:17,430 --> 01:05:15,440
uh website it says well you know they do

1747
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:17,440
influence the direction of mufon and

1748
01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:18,480
they

1749
01:05:24,789 --> 01:05:20,480
have some other perks that suggest

1750
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:26,789
manipulating is the word i was searching

1751
01:05:30,789 --> 01:05:29,440
for manipulating uh what mufon is doing

1752
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:30,799
and that sort of thing and i thought you

1753
01:05:34,309 --> 01:05:32,240
know this is something that really needs

1754
01:05:37,029 --> 01:05:34,319
to be discussed because we've got people

1755
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:37,039
at the highest levels of mufon who

1756
01:05:43,029 --> 01:05:39,200
are making these

1757
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:43,039
really bad racist comments

1758
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,520
i think like knight was talking about

1759
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:47,760
how the jews had earned enough money to

1760
01:05:50,710 --> 01:05:49,200
buy their way out of the gas chambers

1761
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:50,720
which i thought was really a horrendous

1762
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:52,160
thing to say

1763
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,720
and stuff like that and

1764
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:56,880
the executive director of mufon jan

1765
01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:58,240
harzon

1766
01:06:01,270 --> 01:06:00,160
didn't really seem to care

1767
01:06:02,549 --> 01:06:01,280
because

1768
01:06:03,910 --> 01:06:02,559
the inner circle isn't all that

1769
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:03,920
important and yet when you read about

1770
01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:05,599
the inner circle it supposedly is that

1771
01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:07,039
important so i found it somewhat

1772
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:09,680
contradictory did you see the 60 minutes

1773
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:12,400
interview with um

1774
01:06:17,829 --> 01:06:16,480
bigelow yeah bigelow robert bigelow no

1775
01:06:20,069 --> 01:06:17,839
i but i know that he said that he

1776
01:06:23,190 --> 01:06:20,079
believed aliens were visiting us yeah

1777
01:06:26,150 --> 01:06:23,200
but he also uh extrapolated a little bit

1778
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:26,160
on his involvement with mufon and what

1779
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:28,079
happened he didn't go into great detail

1780
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:29,200
but he did

1781
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:30,720
elaborate a little bit

1782
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:33,280
um that

1783
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:36,160
he paid x number of dollars to the board

1784
01:06:40,710 --> 01:06:38,720
and there had been an agreement

1785
01:06:42,950 --> 01:06:40,720
with the board that

1786
01:06:44,789 --> 01:06:42,960
he would

1787
01:06:46,789 --> 01:06:44,799
look at some of the

1788
01:06:49,430 --> 01:06:46,799
investigations and supplied the

1789
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:49,440
technical expertise and scientific

1790
01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:51,520
evaluation of any evidence blah blah

1791
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:52,400
blah

1792
01:06:56,309 --> 01:06:54,319
and the board agreed and then somehow

1793
01:06:58,309 --> 01:06:56,319
the board reneged on their involvement

1794
01:07:00,549 --> 01:06:58,319
i'm not really sure

1795
01:07:02,309 --> 01:07:00,559
to you know any details beyond that but

1796
01:07:04,710 --> 01:07:02,319
apparently there was a rift between

1797
01:07:06,549 --> 01:07:04,720
bigelow and the board concerning

1798
01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:06,559
management cases and whatever but he

1799
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:09,839
didn't elaborate there was there was uh

1800
01:07:14,789 --> 01:07:12,480
another scandal if you will back in the

1801
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:14,799
1990s where

1802
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:16,960
john carpenter who was their abduction

1803
01:07:21,430 --> 01:07:18,720
researcher

1804
01:07:22,870 --> 01:07:21,440
sold case files to bigelow for x number

1805
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:22,880
of dollars

1806
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:25,440
and here are people who were

1807
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:28,240
expressing their beliefs or talking

1808
01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:29,440
about their

1809
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:30,880
experiences

1810
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:31,920
and

1811
01:07:36,789 --> 01:07:35,039
carpenter was gathering the information

1812
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:36,799
confidential information handing it over

1813
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:38,079
to bigelow

1814
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:39,520
which didn't mean it was necessarily

1815
01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:41,359
compromised but it certainly was

1816
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:42,799
something that wasn't expected and i

1817
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:44,079
know that carpenter got into a little

1818
01:07:49,349 --> 01:07:47,440
bit of trouble over that i i i excuse me

1819
01:07:51,270 --> 01:07:49,359
i worked directly under john shuschler

1820
01:07:54,950 --> 01:07:51,280
out of mufon headquarters in littleton

1821
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:54,960
colorado and he assigned me cases

1822
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:55,680
out of i worked

1823
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:57,839
of the office there and i know of two

1824
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:00,319
cases that never made it into the case

1825
01:08:03,510 --> 01:08:02,319
management file and john doesn't have

1826
01:08:05,430 --> 01:08:03,520
them

1827
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:05,440
and and they were extensive

1828
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:07,760
investigations that i did reports

1829
01:08:12,230 --> 01:08:09,760
written and and they're not there you

1830
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:12,240
know fortunately i have my copy

1831
01:08:17,349 --> 01:08:13,200
but

1832
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:17,359
management system i can never find them

1833
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:19,040
and i and i had other people in fact i

1834
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,279
think lorna and she couldn't find them

1835
01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:23,600
either so i don't know where they went

1836
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:25,359
you know it leads me

1837
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:26,719
it leads me to believe that you know

1838
01:08:30,390 --> 01:08:28,319
they went somewhere

1839
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,400
i wrote the goddamn things well i think

1840
01:08:34,709 --> 01:08:32,239
i think john schussler is a fine

1841
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:34,719
individual i do too i have nothing but

1842
01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:36,080
respect for him

1843
01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:38,080
and um and he's on the board of

1844
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:39,359
directors

1845
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:41,920
he's also on in the inner circle

1846
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:44,480
all right so i couldn't find any i i

1847
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:46,159
didn't realize that he had five grand to

1848
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:48,960
hand to give to mufa uh he

1849
01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:51,520
he's not on the board now he's he's out

1850
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:53,679
of it but he went to when he retired

1851
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:55,920
from mufon he he admitted to me that he

1852
01:09:01,430 --> 01:08:58,640
went to work for bigelow at uh his

1853
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:01,440
headquarters there in uh nevada arrow

1854
01:09:04,470 --> 01:09:03,600
big little aerospace i think it's called

1855
01:09:10,309 --> 01:09:04,480
and

1856
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:10,319
he was a board member too

1857
01:09:14,470 --> 01:09:13,199
um he was a aeronautical engineer i

1858
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:14,480
believe also

1859
01:09:19,110 --> 01:09:17,520
uh his son was on the board with him

1860
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:19,120
wrote several books i'm having a brain

1861
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:21,120
fart but the um

1862
01:09:26,149 --> 01:09:23,759
well the thing the thing that um got to

1863
01:09:27,749 --> 01:09:26,159
me was this inner circle

1864
01:09:30,309 --> 01:09:27,759
and some of the

1865
01:09:33,269 --> 01:09:30,319
wacky doodles who are members of that uh

1866
01:09:34,709 --> 01:09:33,279
john schussler is a member of it and and

1867
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:34,719
great for him

1868
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:36,560
um

1869
01:09:40,950 --> 01:09:38,960
uh clifford cliff cliff clifford

1870
01:09:43,269 --> 01:09:40,960
clifford clift yeah whatever his name

1871
01:09:45,749 --> 01:09:43,279
he's he's in the inner circle

1872
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,759
but you've got jen ventry who made this

1873
01:09:49,030 --> 01:09:47,359
racist rant he's still in the inner

1874
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:49,040
circle and it didn't seem that harzan

1875
01:09:54,149 --> 01:09:52,080
had any plans to return the money

1876
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:54,159
and throw him out of the inner circle

1877
01:09:57,430 --> 01:09:55,840
because it's really just a profit center

1878
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:57,440
you see it's a way of earning cash

1879
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:00,159
because mufon needs money to operate

1880
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:02,880
and i'm thinking that if you look at

1881
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:05,920
uh once knight's

1882
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:08,239
racist comments were

1883
01:10:11,830 --> 01:10:10,320
published on the internet

1884
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:11,840
she had given

1885
01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:14,560
70 000 to various democratic candidates

1886
01:10:17,669 --> 01:10:16,400
in her home state

1887
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:17,679
and they all returned the money they

1888
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:19,040
didn't want any they didn't want to be

1889
01:10:23,030 --> 01:10:21,440
associated with that but with mufon it

1890
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:23,040
doesn't seem to you got the five grand

1891
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:25,040
you can be on the inner circle and it

1892
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,800
really doesn't mean anything except of

1893
01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:28,480
course when you read exactly what the

1894
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:31,199
inner circle does or what what some of

1895
01:10:35,510 --> 01:10:33,760
the perks of the inner circle are you

1896
01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:35,520
find out that it does mean something in

1897
01:10:39,030 --> 01:10:37,600
fact what one of the things it says on

1898
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:39,040
the inner circle

1899
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:40,480
is that

1900
01:10:44,550 --> 01:10:42,400
as i flip through the pages here so i

1901
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:44,560
can find it

1902
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:46,320
the inner circle members provide

1903
01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:48,800
advisory guidance to mufon

1904
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:50,560
and are included in annual conference

1905
01:10:54,950 --> 01:10:52,560
calls attend private functions and

1906
01:10:56,630 --> 01:10:54,960
cocktail parties during symposium time

1907
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:56,640
are afforded reserve seating at mufon

1908
01:11:00,870 --> 01:10:58,400
but here's to the important point our

1909
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:00,880
provided provide

1910
01:11:05,189 --> 01:11:03,760
advisory guidance to move on well that

1911
01:11:07,030 --> 01:11:05,199
suggests they're doing something more

1912
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:07,040
they're they're doing something more

1913
01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:08,159
than just

1914
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:11,280
these other ego strokes

1915
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,880
and one of the websites that i looked at

1916
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,400
that members of this elite group the

1917
01:11:17,830 --> 01:11:16,000
inner circle provide insight and

1918
01:11:19,830 --> 01:11:17,840
direction to the course of mufon takes

1919
01:11:22,390 --> 01:11:19,840
in its daily activities

1920
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:22,400
so it's not just you give me five grand

1921
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,480
you can sit with me in the

1922
01:11:28,630 --> 01:11:26,560
symposium you get into the symposium for

1923
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:28,640
free and all of that stuff there is

1924
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,090
actually um

1925
01:11:34,870 --> 01:11:33,040
[Music]

1926
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:34,880
guidance being provided by these people

1927
01:11:38,550 --> 01:11:36,320
and who are some of these people well

1928
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:38,560
you got you've got jay-z knight who

1929
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:40,960
takes her advice from a 35 000 year old

1930
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:42,080
lemorian

1931
01:11:46,630 --> 01:11:44,400
the lumerian um

1932
01:11:47,590 --> 01:11:46,640
warrior who by the way endorsed donald

1933
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:47,600
trump

1934
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:49,360
and if he'd endorsed donald hillary

1935
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:50,400
clinton i would have mentioned that as

1936
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,630
and i'm thinking you know are these

1937
01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:56,400
really the people you want guiding move

1938
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:57,600
on right now

1939
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,760
uh you know

1940
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:01,360
you have to admit that

1941
01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:03,360
studying ufos is kind of a fringe

1942
01:12:09,750 --> 01:12:06,960
activity no matter how you want to

1943
01:12:12,229 --> 01:12:09,760
frame it it's kind of a fringe activity

1944
01:12:14,790 --> 01:12:12,239
and then you move it even further with

1945
01:12:17,350 --> 01:12:14,800
them getting advice from a 35 000 year

1946
01:12:18,950 --> 01:12:17,360
old lumerian warrior the jay-z knight

1947
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:18,960
channels

1948
01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:21,600
you know that just does not suggest a

1949
01:12:27,270 --> 01:12:24,640
scientific organization

1950
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:27,280
that is correct

1951
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,000
well i i there's no question that uh

1952
01:12:34,149 --> 01:12:32,239
you know mufon has a

1953
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:34,159
identity problem

1954
01:12:37,990 --> 01:12:36,480
their their credibility at least and i'm

1955
01:12:39,590 --> 01:12:38,000
not talking about the rank and file or

1956
01:12:42,229 --> 01:12:39,600
the state directors because i i think

1957
01:12:45,270 --> 01:12:42,239
there was some very fine people involved

1958
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:45,280
in uh investigating and researching uh

1959
01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:46,880
some of the cases that move from but the

1960
01:12:51,430 --> 01:12:49,199
hierarchy is the one

1961
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:51,440
uh that has the credibility issue and it

1962
01:12:58,870 --> 01:12:55,040
comes from i think it all started

1963
01:13:01,750 --> 01:12:58,880
uh with the bigelow error okay and the

1964
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:01,760
the amount of money there's all kinds of

1965
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:03,840
figures that are put out there the the

1966
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:06,480
latest i heard was like 1.6 million is

1967
01:13:11,270 --> 01:13:09,520
what he offered to put in the coffers uh

1968
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:11,280
to supplement the research and

1969
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:14,719
investigation handle any cost

1970
01:13:18,229 --> 01:13:15,440
for

1971
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:18,239
mufon and he originally he wanted a to

1972
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:21,360
be able to deploy a team immediately

1973
01:13:25,830 --> 01:13:23,840
when a when a case came in that had all

1974
01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:25,840
kinds of forensic evidence associated

1975
01:13:31,110 --> 01:13:28,480
with it and he was wanting to fund have

1976
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:31,120
an airplane on standby and and fly the

1977
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:34,159
team anywhere at any cost to to be on

1978
01:13:38,390 --> 01:13:36,080
the scene to do the research and

1979
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:38,400
scientific analysis of the of the

1980
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:40,000
forensic evidence

1981
01:13:45,590 --> 01:13:42,960
whether that came to pass i don't know i

1982
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:45,600
know that i was invited to be on the sat

1983
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:47,040
team

1984
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:48,880
that was supposed to handle special

1985
01:13:52,630 --> 01:13:50,400
cases that were going to come out of

1986
01:13:55,510 --> 01:13:52,640
headquarters and nothing ever

1987
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:55,520
materialized on it as far as i know and

1988
01:14:00,070 --> 01:13:57,520
then i heard through a roundabout way

1989
01:14:02,470 --> 01:14:00,080
that i had been fired from the from the

1990
01:14:05,189 --> 01:14:02,480
sat team okay

1991
01:14:07,510 --> 01:14:05,199
and i i had a case that i brought to the

1992
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:07,520
sat team and submitted and never got a

1993
01:14:10,950 --> 01:14:09,040
reply back

1994
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:10,960
um so

1995
01:14:15,350 --> 01:14:12,800
you make of that what you will

1996
01:14:18,229 --> 01:14:15,360
but i think that mufon has some at the

1997
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:18,239
hierarchy has credibility issues

1998
01:14:21,910 --> 01:14:19,520
and they have done nothing to address

1999
01:14:25,189 --> 01:14:21,920
that i'm not going to i'm not going to

2000
01:14:26,950 --> 01:14:25,199
i i don't think that bigelow was

2001
01:14:29,189 --> 01:14:26,960
a driving force

2002
01:14:33,189 --> 01:14:29,199
completely because i know in the early

2003
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:33,199
1990s late 1980s before bigelow became

2004
01:14:37,030 --> 01:14:34,480
on the scene

2005
01:14:40,070 --> 01:14:37,040
uh walt anders wanted to move into a

2006
01:14:41,669 --> 01:14:40,080
more new agey approach to things because

2007
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:41,679
he thought it would it would drive up

2008
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:44,159
the membership if they had a more

2009
01:14:48,709 --> 01:14:47,040
addressed the new age stuff uh

2010
01:14:49,910 --> 01:14:48,719
more so in the in the journal and that

2011
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:49,920
sort of thing and so i know there was

2012
01:14:53,430 --> 01:14:51,600
some discussion about that

2013
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:53,440
and you know that seemed to be more of

2014
01:14:57,430 --> 01:14:55,360
let's see what we can do to improve our

2015
01:14:59,669 --> 01:14:57,440
membership roles and then than anything

2016
01:15:02,870 --> 01:14:59,679
else but which is not necessarily the

2017
01:15:05,350 --> 01:15:02,880
best scientific approach to take

2018
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:05,360
i know that um

2019
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:07,440
when we get to the highest levels of

2020
01:15:11,350 --> 01:15:09,760
mufon and i agree with you i mean i know

2021
01:15:13,350 --> 01:15:11,360
a lot of people in mufon and i've had

2022
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:13,360
i've had

2023
01:15:17,350 --> 01:15:15,360
experiences with people move on at the

2024
01:15:18,870 --> 01:15:17,360
at the lower levels i've i've asked

2025
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:18,880
questions of them or asked them to help

2026
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:21,360
me with investigations and i've always

2027
01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:22,320
gotten

2028
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:24,239
complete cooperation from the people

2029
01:15:28,870 --> 01:15:26,400
they've done a wonderful job for me uh

2030
01:15:30,790 --> 01:15:28,880
when i've needed that kind of help

2031
01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:30,800
so i you know i'm not looking at them as

2032
01:15:34,950 --> 01:15:33,760
the problem i'm looking at this a inner

2033
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:34,960
circle

2034
01:15:37,270 --> 01:15:36,000
which

2035
01:15:39,270 --> 01:15:37,280
um

2036
01:15:41,189 --> 01:15:39,280
seems to be a driving force and move on

2037
01:15:43,510 --> 01:15:41,199
in today's environment

2038
01:15:45,830 --> 01:15:43,520
which is kind of frightening given some

2039
01:15:47,830 --> 01:15:45,840
of the people who are on that uh in that

2040
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:47,840
inner circle what was your impression of

2041
01:15:53,590 --> 01:15:50,080
jan harzin

2042
01:15:55,510 --> 01:15:53,600
um i thought he was very

2043
01:15:58,870 --> 01:15:55,520
articulate

2044
01:16:01,110 --> 01:15:58,880
um he was able to

2045
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:01,120
fill the film fill the radio broadcast

2046
01:16:05,430 --> 01:16:01,840
with

2047
01:16:07,750 --> 01:16:05,440
that really didn't tell us anything and

2048
01:16:09,750 --> 01:16:07,760
and his insistence throughout the

2049
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,760
interview that the inner circle really

2050
01:16:13,350 --> 01:16:11,440
had no power

2051
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:13,360
and did he did he

2052
01:16:17,750 --> 01:16:15,600
excuse me did he did he want questions

2053
01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:17,760
ahead of time to be submitted to him oh

2054
01:16:21,350 --> 01:16:19,199
absolutely

2055
01:16:22,709 --> 01:16:21,360
interesting and i and i and i told him

2056
01:16:24,070 --> 01:16:22,719
what i was going to talk about and then

2057
01:16:25,590 --> 01:16:24,080
he said well

2058
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:25,600
this would probably be more interesting

2059
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:27,199
to your audience and i wrote back i said

2060
01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:29,600
yeah might be and then did the questions

2061
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:31,360
i wanted

2062
01:16:34,870 --> 01:16:33,360
i mean it was my program and i was going

2063
01:16:36,870 --> 01:16:34,880
to drive the conversation and if you

2064
01:16:39,590 --> 01:16:36,880
didn't like the way it went that was his

2065
01:16:42,630 --> 01:16:39,600
problem not mine uh i wanted to know

2066
01:16:44,470 --> 01:16:42,640
about john ventry i wanted to know about

2067
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:44,480
the

2068
01:16:47,910 --> 01:16:46,320
feeble response

2069
01:16:50,870 --> 01:16:47,920
that was uh

2070
01:16:53,189 --> 01:16:50,880
eventually he was forced to um

2071
01:16:58,149 --> 01:16:53,199
remove entry but then he moved him in

2072
01:17:00,550 --> 01:16:58,159
sort of parallel promotion type thing um

2073
01:17:02,310 --> 01:17:00,560
moved him from from state director to

2074
01:17:04,149 --> 01:17:02,320
the financial coordinator or the

2075
01:17:05,830 --> 01:17:04,159
coordinator of the conferences and that

2076
01:17:08,229 --> 01:17:05,840
sort of thing so he's not removed from

2077
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:08,239
from mufon he remains in the inner

2078
01:17:11,830 --> 01:17:09,520
circle which

2079
01:17:13,830 --> 01:17:11,840
given what they say about the inner

2080
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:13,840
circle guiding the direction of mufon

2081
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:15,360
i'm not sure that's really great and

2082
01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:18,159
then i learned about jay-z knight and

2083
01:17:21,669 --> 01:17:19,440
i'm thinking yeah that's going to be

2084
01:17:24,149 --> 01:17:21,679
helpful to drive the direction of mufon

2085
01:17:26,470 --> 01:17:24,159
i looked at dave mcdonald who was

2086
01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:26,480
responsible for the mile high club you

2087
01:17:29,910 --> 01:17:27,760
know his

2088
01:17:31,270 --> 01:17:29,920
flamingo airways or whatever the name of

2089
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:31,280
it is

2090
01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:33,440
he had this this thing where um you

2091
01:17:36,870 --> 01:17:35,120
could join the mile high club you rent

2092
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:36,880
one of the airplanes and they would fly

2093
01:17:40,390 --> 01:17:38,400
you up and you could join the mile high

2094
01:17:42,790 --> 01:17:40,400
club which isn't necessarily that

2095
01:17:45,910 --> 01:17:42,800
egregious but i mean is that really

2096
01:17:48,950 --> 01:17:45,920
somebody that that you want kind of at

2097
01:17:50,709 --> 01:17:48,960
the front of mufon yeah i get people in

2098
01:17:53,030 --> 01:17:50,719
the mile high club and then i have to

2099
01:17:55,270 --> 01:17:53,040
wonder if everybody in denver

2100
01:17:58,070 --> 01:17:55,280
isn't already in the mile high club but

2101
01:17:59,110 --> 01:17:58,080
that's just

2102
01:18:01,750 --> 01:17:59,120
uh

2103
01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:01,760
so you know i i looked at that um i

2104
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:03,760
looked at john grace and i found this

2105
01:18:07,830 --> 01:18:05,520
guy named john grace who claimed to be

2106
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:07,840
val valerian and

2107
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:08,880
done some

2108
01:18:15,830 --> 01:18:13,280
documents on on mj12 but uh jan harzan

2109
01:18:17,669 --> 01:18:15,840
assured me it wasn't the same john grace

2110
01:18:20,790 --> 01:18:17,679
so i i don't really know whether it was

2111
01:18:23,189 --> 01:18:20,800
or not when i mentioned jay-z knight um

2112
01:18:24,950 --> 01:18:23,199
he i don't know much about jay-z knight

2113
01:18:27,270 --> 01:18:24,960
that's a new one on me i don't know much

2114
01:18:29,669 --> 01:18:27,280
she's only she's in the inner circle

2115
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:29,679
she is in the inner circle okay she

2116
01:18:33,590 --> 01:18:32,080
channels she channels this 35 000 year

2117
01:18:36,149 --> 01:18:33,600
old warrior

2118
01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:36,159
oh okay okay okay all right i know where

2119
01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:37,600
you're at now i gotta i gotta face with

2120
01:18:42,550 --> 01:18:41,760
the name now and i think she um she uh

2121
01:18:43,910 --> 01:18:42,560
uh

2122
01:18:45,669 --> 01:18:43,920
what what herzon said in the

2123
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:45,679
conversation i thought was fairly flip i

2124
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:46,960
said well if she was a state director

2125
01:18:49,990 --> 01:18:48,960
i'd fire her too and i'm thinking uh why

2126
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:50,000
don't you throw her onto the inner

2127
01:18:53,350 --> 01:18:51,760
circle for crying out loud give her a

2128
01:18:56,310 --> 01:18:53,360
five grand back and say we don't need

2129
01:18:59,270 --> 01:18:56,320
you here right and i this is this is

2130
01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:59,280
what worries me about mufon and i think

2131
01:19:03,110 --> 01:19:00,800
you know i i

2132
01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:03,120
i put up a long posting on my blog about

2133
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:05,440
this just yesterday some of the stuff

2134
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:06,640
that i found out and some of the things

2135
01:19:10,070 --> 01:19:08,400
that arzon arizona told me

2136
01:19:12,149 --> 01:19:10,080
and i was a little bit leery about it

2137
01:19:14,630 --> 01:19:12,159
because i'm thinking of all the people

2138
01:19:16,950 --> 01:19:14,640
who belong to mufon the toil at the

2139
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:16,960
lower levels that are doing the best job

2140
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:19,280
they can to investigate ufos and their

2141
01:19:24,310 --> 01:19:21,679
their their conscientious they're

2142
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:24,320
enthusiastic they work very hard for

2143
01:19:27,510 --> 01:19:25,920
this organization and yet they're being

2144
01:19:29,590 --> 01:19:27,520
taken down the road

2145
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:29,600
at the highest levels nobody seems to

2146
01:19:33,270 --> 01:19:31,679
really know about this the inner circle

2147
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:33,280
like i said not many people knew about

2148
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:34,800
the inner circle when i talked to him

2149
01:19:39,430 --> 01:19:37,120
about it but it is on the website and i

2150
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:39,440
just checked again today to make sure

2151
01:19:45,270 --> 01:19:42,239
and uh knight and um ventri are still in

2152
01:19:47,350 --> 01:19:45,280
the inner circle so i i think that is

2153
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:47,360
kind of egregious but that's my opinion

2154
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:48,960
on it i think that they should do

2155
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:50,960
something about that

2156
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:53,040
but the five grand each of them donates

2157
01:19:56,390 --> 01:19:54,800
each year i guess is more important than

2158
01:19:58,070 --> 01:19:56,400
um

2159
01:20:00,070 --> 01:19:58,080
yeah hey and i want to say thanks to

2160
01:20:02,470 --> 01:20:00,080
lorna she the person i was thinking of

2161
01:20:03,270 --> 01:20:02,480
was bob woods he was on the board with

2162
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:03,280
uh

2163
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:07,840
working out of headquarters

2164
01:20:15,189 --> 01:20:12,000
bob is bob is a wonderful guy yeah

2165
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:15,199
unfortunately he believes in mj-12

2166
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:17,760
well you know which which leads me you

2167
01:20:20,709 --> 01:20:18,480
know

2168
01:20:23,270 --> 01:20:20,719
for the sake of argument let's say that

2169
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:23,280
it was a exotic flying saucer that

2170
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:25,760
crashed in roswell i could see

2171
01:20:32,229 --> 01:20:28,800
an organization like men j12 being being

2172
01:20:33,430 --> 01:20:32,239
formed to handle that type of uh issue i

2173
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:33,440
mean i don't think that's beyond the

2174
01:20:36,470 --> 01:20:34,960
realm of

2175
01:20:37,990 --> 01:20:36,480
science fiction i think that's a very

2176
01:20:40,310 --> 01:20:38,000
real possibility now as far as the

2177
01:20:42,550 --> 01:20:40,320
documents go i'm not a document

2178
01:20:44,630 --> 01:20:42,560
professional i don't know

2179
01:20:46,870 --> 01:20:44,640
if those are legit or not i can only go

2180
01:20:49,830 --> 01:20:46,880
by people that have a system and some

2181
01:20:52,709 --> 01:20:49,840
say yes some say no but it makes sense

2182
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:52,719
majority say no okay and that's

2183
01:20:57,350 --> 01:20:54,960
absolutely and they're real grief and

2184
01:20:59,270 --> 01:20:57,360
the the other thing about the documents

2185
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:59,280
the documents are all fraudulent there's

2186
01:21:03,189 --> 01:21:00,960
no question about that the latest ones

2187
01:21:06,070 --> 01:21:03,199
that came out uh a week and a half ago

2188
01:21:08,630 --> 01:21:06,080
10 days ago something like that um they

2189
01:21:11,270 --> 01:21:08,640
are so full of errors it's unbelievable

2190
01:21:13,830 --> 01:21:11,280
wouldn't that be would it be

2191
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:13,840
your intelligent officer wouldn't it be

2192
01:21:18,550 --> 01:21:16,080
a worthwhile project to throw that kind

2193
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:18,560
of smoke and mud in the water to dirty

2194
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:21,760
it i mean to put out fake documents uh

2195
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:23,760
to discredit but at the same time

2196
01:21:30,310 --> 01:21:26,840
realizing that there really is an actual

2197
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:30,320
mj-12 group might not be called mj12 now

2198
01:21:33,510 --> 01:21:32,000
but that there is a group of people that

2199
01:21:35,990 --> 01:21:33,520
are dealing with this issue it makes

2200
01:21:37,669 --> 01:21:36,000
sense to me if they have no they have no

2201
01:21:39,350 --> 01:21:37,679
reason to do that because we do it to

2202
01:21:43,350 --> 01:21:39,360
ourselves

2203
01:21:45,830 --> 01:21:43,360
the the fake documents all came from

2204
01:21:47,270 --> 01:21:45,840
inside the ufo community oh oh i see

2205
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:47,280
what you're saying so we're doing it to

2206
01:21:50,870 --> 01:21:49,440
ourselves yeah yeah i agree if i was

2207
01:21:52,149 --> 01:21:50,880
working for these guys i would be

2208
01:21:53,270 --> 01:21:52,159
holding this stuff up and said look what

2209
01:21:55,110 --> 01:21:53,280
i've done and

2210
01:21:57,110 --> 01:21:55,120
we've really diverted their attention to

2211
01:21:58,870 --> 01:21:57,120
12 now

2212
01:22:00,870 --> 01:21:58,880
you know that's what i would be doing

2213
01:22:02,629 --> 01:22:00,880
and i think you can look at the the one

2214
01:22:03,990 --> 01:22:02,639
that i know stan always holds up is

2215
01:22:06,229 --> 01:22:04,000
authentic the eisenhower briefing

2216
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:06,239
document has a fatal flaw in it

2217
01:22:12,149 --> 01:22:09,120
and that is the el indio the

2218
01:22:15,030 --> 01:22:12,159
guerrero el indio ufo crash of 19

2219
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:15,040
december of 1950. it's a hoax it was

2220
01:22:17,510 --> 01:22:16,320
invented by a guy named robert

2221
01:22:19,030 --> 01:22:17,520
willingham

2222
01:22:20,950 --> 01:22:19,040
who was a

2223
01:22:22,550 --> 01:22:20,960
who lived in pennsylvania and was a

2224
01:22:24,950 --> 01:22:22,560
member of the civil air patrol and i

2225
01:22:26,790 --> 01:22:24,960
found i found the original statement by

2226
01:22:30,310 --> 01:22:26,800
willingham in skyhook

2227
01:22:32,709 --> 01:22:30,320
skylook magazine which was the first

2228
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,719
publication by by mufon before it became

2229
01:22:37,189 --> 01:22:34,800
the mufan journal was called skylock and

2230
01:22:40,629 --> 01:22:37,199
there was there was a paragraph on page

2231
01:22:42,390 --> 01:22:40,639
three of the march 1968 issue

2232
01:22:44,790 --> 01:22:42,400
and they interviewed colonel robert

2233
01:22:47,430 --> 01:22:44,800
willingham who was a civil air patrol

2234
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:47,440
officer not a air force officer overall

2235
01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:50,400
officer and talked about seeing a crash

2236
01:22:56,790 --> 01:22:54,320
in that area in 1948

2237
01:22:59,030 --> 01:22:56,800
and then the story morphed into december

2238
01:23:01,270 --> 01:22:59,040
of 1950 and uh

2239
01:23:03,350 --> 01:23:01,280
todd zeckel was chasing it down and he

2240
01:23:05,830 --> 01:23:03,360
was in contact with bill moore saying to

2241
01:23:08,310 --> 01:23:05,840
bill moore i've got this wonderful ufo

2242
01:23:09,990 --> 01:23:08,320
crash and and uh bill

2243
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:10,000
he wanted to do a book about it which he

2244
01:23:12,629 --> 01:23:11,120
never did

2245
01:23:15,990 --> 01:23:12,639
but um

2246
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:16,000
so this this crash appears in the mj the

2247
01:23:19,189 --> 01:23:17,920
eisenhower briefing document it's one

2248
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:19,199
paragraph and it talks about this

2249
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:22,639
december of 199 december 6 1950 ufo

2250
01:23:27,310 --> 01:23:25,440
crash in that area but it's a hoax it

2251
01:23:28,870 --> 01:23:27,320
was made up by robert willingham in

2252
01:23:30,950 --> 01:23:28,880
1968.

2253
01:23:33,030 --> 01:23:30,960
kevin so that's that's the fatal flaw

2254
01:23:34,709 --> 01:23:33,040
kevin we've ran out of time can you let

2255
01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:34,719
our listeners know where your blog is at

2256
01:23:38,070 --> 01:23:37,120
and where to get your books

2257
01:23:42,310 --> 01:23:38,080
you can go to

2258
01:23:46,550 --> 01:23:44,950
and read all about the mufon inner

2259
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:46,560
circle if you want and a lot of other

2260
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:50,000
stuff some mj12 stuff is just up as well

2261
01:23:55,270 --> 01:23:52,320
the book is roswell in the 21st century

2262
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:55,280
and there's uh on the side of the blog

2263
01:23:58,470 --> 01:23:56,960
you can take you can click on it it'll

2264
01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:58,480
take you right to amazon you can order

2265
01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:59,600
it on

2266
01:24:03,830 --> 01:24:01,440
kindle and be reading it like

2267
01:24:05,430 --> 01:24:03,840
in 10 10 seconds

2268
01:24:09,110 --> 01:24:05,440
so you take a look at that and the new

2269
01:24:11,750 --> 01:24:09,120
book is called is about the socorro ufo

2270
01:24:13,430 --> 01:24:11,760
incident with lonnie zamora

2271
01:24:15,030 --> 01:24:13,440
which is contact in the desert which

2272
01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:15,040
will be coming out in october from

2273
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:16,480
newpage books

2274
01:24:20,629 --> 01:24:17,920
and i just finished some of the work on

2275
01:24:22,470 --> 01:24:20,639
that uh yesterday nice nice very cool

2276
01:24:24,870 --> 01:24:22,480
well thanks for coming on and i'm sure

2277
01:24:25,910 --> 01:24:24,880
ken has some final words for you

2278
01:24:29,189 --> 01:24:25,920
oh hey

2279
01:24:32,709 --> 01:24:31,030
there you go again trying to put words

2280
01:24:36,790 --> 01:24:32,719
into my mouth

2281
01:24:39,030 --> 01:24:36,800
okay i uh i like i said i i enjoy the uh

2282
01:24:40,550 --> 01:24:39,040
passionate discussion you know and and

2283
01:24:41,910 --> 01:24:40,560
hey i give you credit even though you're

2284
01:24:44,229 --> 01:24:41,920
wrong that's okay that's all right

2285
01:24:47,189 --> 01:24:44,239
that's a problem you know but i i think

2286
01:24:48,149 --> 01:24:47,199
my hypothesis is based upon

2287
01:24:52,390 --> 01:24:48,159
uh

2288
01:24:54,070 --> 01:24:52,400
to be real and therefore you know it

2289
01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:54,080
answers the why for me and i'm not

2290
01:24:57,910 --> 01:24:56,080
saying that it's fact i'm not don't make

2291
01:24:59,750 --> 01:24:57,920
that claim i'm just offering it as a

2292
01:25:02,229 --> 01:24:59,760
working hypothesis and kevin i truly

2293
01:25:04,149 --> 01:25:02,239
enjoy the opposition man you know why

2294
01:25:05,669 --> 01:25:04,159
because it makes me work that harder

2295
01:25:07,830 --> 01:25:05,679
makes me that much more sharper the

2296
01:25:09,750 --> 01:25:07,840
competition is what it's all about the

2297
01:25:11,430 --> 01:25:09,760
only thing i worry about when you and i

2298
01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:11,440
get into these discussions on the radio

2299
01:25:15,990 --> 01:25:13,440
program is i'm not sure how excited the

2300
01:25:17,590 --> 01:25:16,000
listeners are that's their problem oh

2301
01:25:19,189 --> 01:25:17,600
okay

2302
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:19,199
i'm worried about the inception radio

2303
01:25:22,629 --> 01:25:21,199
network listeners and you guys don't

2304
01:25:23,910 --> 01:25:22,639
care okay

2305
01:25:26,470 --> 01:25:23,920
they enjoyed it what are you talking

2306
01:25:28,629 --> 01:25:26,480
about it was passion and

2307
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:28,639
you defended your position i respect you

2308
01:25:32,310 --> 01:25:30,719
for that i really do and it's a pleasure

2309
01:25:34,310 --> 01:25:32,320
having you on man i appreciate it thank

2310
01:25:35,990 --> 01:25:34,320
you very much thank you thank you thank

2311
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:36,000
you kevin and good night everybody and

2312
01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:38,400
uh there was some head pang in tonight

2313
01:25:42,310 --> 01:25:40,800
talk to you next week